Originally Posted by Mike Parker
Where are the Cathars today, Matt?
Where are the Cathars? Well, I suppose we could go check Wikipedia and find out.
But first, let's clear up one thing. Were the Cathars a different race of people? Or were they just plain-old vanilla White people? White Christian European people who lived in lovely Euroland. Also-- and this is important, so take notes, please-- there was no such "thing" as a Cathar, any more than there is any such "thing" as a "Christian". There's just people, who identify themselves by a certain collection of beliefs. Beliefs vary from region to region, and from time to time. If you asked where are the Germans in America?, what would the answer be? Because they don't speak German anymore, and don't wear lederhosen, they must be extinct? No. They and their descendents are still here, they just speak a different language now, and wear clothes that are "normal" for their area, time period, and economic class.
The Cathars were just a bunch of White Christians who had a different brand of Xianity, that didn't match up too well with the dominant brand. The Pope and his band of Merry Men tried to talk to them at first, bring them back into the fold. That's what Whites do: bicker and dicker and argue tiny little points of doctrine and ideology-- mostly, I think, as a form of athletic competition for the mind. Just as we use sports and even war as a way of acting out our inner need to compete, so Whites use their brains, and their intellectual and verbal skills to act out our inner need for mental competition. You can see that from the writings of the Greeks, and pretty much all that's happened since them. We don't think of debates and arguments the same as we do sports, but I think we should. It's healthy. The mind needs exercise as much as the body. Challenge is good.
Anyhoo, the Cathars are where we get the famous quote "Kill them all, the Lord will recognize His own." (Later adapted by the USMC as: Kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out!). The battles and siege were well worth reading about. One of a million examples that Christianity in Europe for nearly all of it's known history was about aggression, combat, control, warfare, brutality, sadism, defending your own carefully defined ideology, and forcing your will on others. Go to Wikipedia, look up Catharism, and read the part under the heading of "Massacre". Let us bask in the glow of the record of what our forefathers were really like, and what Christianity could be used for :
"The Cathars spent much of 1209 fending off the crusaders. The leader of the crusaders, Simon de Montfort, resorted to primitive psychological warfare. He ordered his troops to gouge out the eyes of 100 prisoners, cut off their noses and lips, then send them back to the towers led by a prisoner with one remaining eye. This only served to harden the Cathars."
Hoo-Ya! Gotta love it. We sure aren't the men our ancestors were. Not yet anyway. That thin veneer of civilization just needs to be peeled off. Hey, not to digress, but do you think maybe if White guys here in Murka went and grabbed a hundred Mexicans a decade ago, gouged out their eyes, cut off their lips and noses, tied them all together so they didn't wander off to the local Home Depot or burrito stand, and sent them marching down the middle of a highway in Los Angles, we might not have any immigration worries today? Just thinkin' out loud here...
Hey, the story on Wikipedia gets better! Listen to what the White Euro Christian men did next! --
"The doors of the church of St Mary Magdalene were broken down and the refugees dragged out and slaughtered. Reportedly, 7,000 people died there. Elsewhere in the town many more thousands were mutilated and killed. Prisoners were blinded, dragged behind horses, and used for target practice. What remained was razed by fire. Arnaud wrote to Pope Innocent the third.... "Today your Holiness 20 thousand heretics were put to the sword, regardless of rank, age, or sex."
To which Pope INNOCENT replied : "Woot! Yeah, baby! Bitches don't know about my Catholicism!" (I'm translating from the Latin here, so the quote may not be exact.)
I know some people are put off by long posts, so I won't get into the quote in the first paragraph that reads: "However, the roots of Catharism and whether there was ever a group that self identified as Cathars is debatable." That would open a can of worms.
I would like to ask why you brought up the Cathars, however, especially in reference to my asking who else might have been so excluded from mainstream Xian society for the past 2000 years. Surely, you are not comparing the Cathars, which were a White Christian group that went off the reservation a bit with their ideology, and fought with the Pope's Army way the hell back in the 11th and 12th centuries, to the travails of the Jews?
Can you see how that's not the same thing? So where are the Cathars today, you ask? Well, their descendents are still around somewhere, those that weren't killed. They were just a bunch of Whites who had some different stories to tell. The Pope and his Armed Forces bade them and eventually made them to stop telling those stories, and to tell different stories. And so they did. Who cares what stories about invisible Gods and supernatural forces they told? They're all nonsense anyway. Just one more case where the strong did what they could, while the weak suffered what they must. "Applied Dawinism", I call it.
So back to your question... your so-called point eludes me a bit, so I.....oh wait, I know! You weren't really being embarassingly stupid! You were only pretending! You were serving as my dimwitted foil here, giving me a chance to make some more really good points....why thank you, my good man! We make a great team... you set 'em up, I'll knock 'em down!