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December 11th, 2009 | #81 |
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this seems to be the main update site for news on the trial
http://blogs.roanoke.com/rtblogs/wil...troom-updates/ |
December 11th, 2009 | #82 |
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came across this in googling:
"It is long settled in the USA that advocating violence is lawful as long as it is done in a context which does not lend itself to imminent lawlessness. That precedent was established in the case "Brandenberg v. Ohio" back in 1969 and has been rock-solid free speech case law ever since." |
December 11th, 2009 | #83 |
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The main thing here is whether the feds are trying to create new inroads on the First Amendment. It doesn't look to me like there is any "true threat" by White. To convict him, the feds, it appears to me, have to take a number of independently legal actions (calls, emails, other forms of speech) and bundle them into something actionable.
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December 11th, 2009 | #84 |
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Opening Arguments Held in Bill White Trial
Posted in Neo-Nazi, Trial Updates by Sonia Scherr on December 10, 2009 ROANOKE, VA. — Did white supremacist Bill White threaten people with whom he disagreed? Or were his outrageous comments protected speech under the First Amendment? The jury appeared to listen closely as lawyers for both sides presented opening arguments this morning in White’s trial, which began yesterday with jury selection. White, who led the neo-Nazi American National Socialist Workers Party until his arrest, is accused of making threats against various people with whom he disagreed. Government prosecutor Cindy Chung told the stories of the six alleged victims who’d been contacted by White, describing how his E-mails, phone calls and Internet postings had adversely affected their lives. A woman who’d received a letter addressed “Dear Nigger Tenant” was afraid to stay in her home. After getting an E-mail with the subject line “Nigger Pitts,” Pulitzer-Prize winning columnist Leonard Pitts wouldn’t let his 11-year-old play in his yard and had armed security at his home for two weeks. A Canadian civil rights lawyer — who White said was “in need of execution” — was afraid to put his gym membership in his own name and took different routes to work. When White called the office of a university professor to say people like her should be hunted down and shot, the professor became so panicked that she was unable to call her father, whose address White had posted on his website, and had to ask a co-worker to do it for her. “Bill White singled out these complete strangers and targeted them with a series of threats and intimidation,” Chung said. “The defendant stole the safety and security these people felt in their homes.” Ray Ferris, one of White’s Roanoke-based defense lawyers, contended that White “did some ugly things,” but his conduct wasn’t illegal if it didn’t communicate a “true threat.” A true threat is what a reasonable person would interpret as expressing the intention to cause injury or death. If it’s not a true threat, then it’s protected speech under the First Amendment, Ferris said. “This case is about speech. It’s about talk. It’s about a lot of hot air from my client.” He said the context of White’s speech must be taken into account, especially the fact that the personal information White posted was available to anyone with a few clicks of a computer mouse. “This was not information that was surreptitiously obtained and then broadcast for the world to know,” he said. “This was information that was on the Internet.” An all-white jury was empanelled yesterday after lawyers for both sides spent hours grilling members of the jury pool. The government challenged the defense’s decision to strike two black prospective jurors, but U.S. District Court Judge James Turk said the defense gave valid reasons for the strikes and he was satisfied they were not race related. http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/1...l-white-trial/ |
December 11th, 2009 | #85 |
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Um, Mr. Government Prosecutor, I don't like being called a hater and extremist when I lay out my case in the international language of love - logic and evidence. Have you got any judicial recourse for me?
"Suck it up"? Oh. Ok. Will do. Maybe the same to Marse Pitts and crew? "Racism"? Oh, I see. Yes, yes, of course. Will pipe down now. Last edited by Alex Linder; December 11th, 2009 at 02:16 PM. |
December 11th, 2009 | #86 |
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Bank worker testifies White e-mail scared her
The leader of a Roanoke-based white supremacy group is accused of making threats with the intent to extort. By Laurence Hammack 981-3239 Defense attorneys David Damico (left) and Ray Ferris want the jury to consider whether their client's comments were true threats. ERIC BRADY The Roanoke Times Angry with the way Citibank was handling his account, William A. White dug up a bank employee's home address, her telephone number and the name of her husband. He then sent the information to Jennifer Petsche in an e-mail, threatening to share it with other dissatisfied customers. "Consider this," White wrote. "As I'm sure, being in the collection business and having the attitude about it that you do, that you often make people upset. Lord knows that drawing too much publicity and making people upset is what did in Joan Lefkow." At the end of the e-mail was a link explaining that Lefkow is a federal judge whose husband and mother were killed in their Chicago home in 2005. At the time, the slayings were believed to have been linked to white supremacists -- a movement that White was involved in. "I was very scared," Petsche told a federal jury in Roanoke on Thursday. "Not only for myself, but for my family." Petsche, who works for Citibank in Kansas City, Mo., is one of about a half-dozen people who, according to prosecutors, were harassed, threatened and intimidated by White. The leader of a Roanoke-based white supremacy group, White is accused of using his computer and telephone to threaten people whose actions offended his racist beliefs. But because White sought personal gain from Petsche -- he wanted to improve his credit score by getting her to clear up his disputed credit card debt -- prosecutors have charged him with threatening her with the intent to extort. Petsche was the first victim to testify in a trial that could last 10 days. Other targets of White include a newspaper columnist, a human rights lawyer, a former small-town mayor, a university administrator and a group of apartment complex tenants. "What do these people have in common?" Justice Department attorney Cindy Chung asked the jury Thursday in her opening statements. "Absolutely nothing. They were not related to each other ... except for the defendant, Bill White. Bill White sought out these complete strangers." Defense attorney Ray Ferris conceded that "Bill White did some ugly things. Bill White did some obnoxious things. Bill White did some things that would really upset me. But that's not the test." The test, Ferris said, is whether White's comments were true threats. If not, they were covered by the First Amendment. Although none of White's targets was physically harmed, prosecutors are arguing that the fear they experienced only increased once they realized he was the head of a neo-Nazi organization. "I have spent the last about three years now in fear of repercussions from Mr. White or his followers," Petsche told the jury, explaining how she has obtained an unpublished number and now screens her calls after getting one from White at her home. Even though Petsche was not involved in a financial dispute that had already been settled by the time White found her, he threatened to "make you better known to your customers than the security measures you enact at your company indicate you would like." One of Petsche's co-workers, who had followed the Lefkow case in the news, testified that White's e-mail upset her so much that she broke out in hives. Because white supremacist Matthew Hale was convicted of soliciting Lefkow's murder the year before her family members were killed, police believed at first that the crime was the work of his followers. Later, they determined the killer was a plaintiff in a medical malpractice lawsuit that was dismissed by the judge. Not long after the killings, White wrote on his now-defunct Web site: "I don't feel bad that Judge Lefkow's family was murdered. In fact, when I heard the story I laughed. 'Good for them!' was my first thought." As the trial continues, federal prosecutors will attempt to bring up such postings from White, arguing that they show a pattern that puts the alleged threats into a larger context. http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/229391 |
December 11th, 2009 | #87 |
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Bill White Trial Day 3: Testimony Continues
Scott Leamon, in the field December 11, 2009 An editor from the Miami Herald newspaper testified Friday in court. He is the boss of columnist Leonard Pitts, who was allegedly threatened by Bill White. Pitts, who has had columns run in the Roanoke Times, allegedly started receiving e-mail threats from White in June of 2007. The editor testified that the Miami Herald set up armed security at Pitts’ Maryland home, where he works, during that month. He also testified that he personally received two e-mails from someone going under the name R. James which he felt were direct threats to Leonard Pitts. The prosecution is trying to prove that R. James is in fact Bill White. 10 On Your Side’s Scott Leamon is inside the courtroom and says Pitts could take the stand later today. Stay with WSLS for the latest developments in this case. http://www2.wsls.com/sls/news/local/...ntinues/67820/ |
December 11th, 2009 | #88 |
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Care to share any insight into this allegation Alex?
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December 11th, 2009 | #89 |
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[following is a comment from a disreputable communist blog]
http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/229084 This is the crux of the case against Bill White. Judge Turk made it a point to tell the courtroom that this trial is not about White's First Amendment rights. Rather, the trial is to determine whether White actually made "threats to injure" several people, which, Judge Turk said, are not protected speech covered by the First Amendment. Apparently, "true threats" are defined as threats which incite or produce imminent lawless action. I believe the prosecutors will have a difficult time proving that White's online words amount to "true threats" beyond a reasonable doubt." |
December 11th, 2009 | #91 |
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Wasn't there some thread on here outing R. James, or claiming he was some known entity? I vaguely recall that but don't feel like searching for it. I don't remember anyone ever claiming "R. James" was Bill White.
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December 11th, 2009 | #92 |
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I get the impression that White suffered from activism while drunk syndrome. Provided that the prosecutor's office is not making this stuff up, it doesn't look good. He appears to be threatening while hiding behind the letter of the law. If Foxman sent emails and made phone calls to Alex Linder saying people like him ought to be shot, how many of us would have a problem with Foxman having legal trouble over it? Like maybe a year in the county hoosegow, now, of course, this isn't what they are fixing to do to White. They would like 30 years in a soundproof cell next to Matt Hale, who was actually, it seems, more innocent than White.
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December 11th, 2009 | #93 |
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December 11th, 2009 | #94 |
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There is a long thread somewhere. I didn't get the impression that Bill White was R. James either. Interesting accusation though since R. James was thought to be another Hal Turner like infiltrator.
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December 11th, 2009 | #95 | |
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Quote:
VBulletin lists your registration IP and also your posting IPs. There is only one registration IP, but there can be dozens or more posting IPs. Again, the bottom line here is: - there is no anonymity on the net - the police can easily access your IP if you somehow involve yourself in litigation. Understand that, even if I didn't want to turn over the IP information, the FBI could simply go to our ISP and demand the disks. There simply isn't any way around this folks: You must stand behind the words you post. I must. Bill White must. R. James must. You must. |
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December 11th, 2009 | #96 | |
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Quote:
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December 11th, 2009 | #97 | |
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Exactly. I post nothing I would not say in open court, and I urge others to do the same.
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December 11th, 2009 | #98 | |
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December 11th, 2009 | #99 | |
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Is it even possible to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that, for example, I made this posting ?? Or say 6 months from now in court, I could deny I did ??
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December 11th, 2009 | #100 | |
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