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June 14th, 2008 | #61 | |||||
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Regarding # 1 and # 3, I suggest you re-read what I wrote in my post # 55: Quote:
http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5808_1_web.jpg you even see the photographer’s name ("J. Byck, Warszawa") on the photo. Take the tomato slices off your eyes. Regarding photo # 2 under http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5811_1_web.jpg , which is not mentioned in the above-quoted listing, I have no idea by whom it was taken. I might contact the Ghetto Fighter’s Museum and ask them whence they concluded that this might be a Treblinka photo, but I’m not exactly in a hurry to do so, as this photo fits what becomes apparent from other evidence about Treblinka and it is for Gerdes to disprove the prima facie indications that it is a Treblinka photo before I have to prove that it is actually one. Photos # 4: http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/excavators2.html are attributed by all sources where I have seen them to Treblinka II's deputy commander Kurt Franz, and they are matched by all associated evidence to what they show, so it's for Gerdes to prove that their attribution to Kurt Franz and the Treblinka II extermination camp is wrong. Nevertheless, I'll provide some background information about these photographs. The photo album of Treblinka’s deputy commander Kurt Franz was introduced as evidence at the first Treblinka trial in Düsseldorf in 1964/65, the summary of which can be found under http://www1.jur.uva.nl/junsv/brd/brd.../brdeng596.htm . The cover sheet of a dossier containing reproductions by the state attorney’s office of Kurt Franz’s photos, which is part of the trial files, is shown on page 90 of Yitzhak Arad’s book Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka. The Operation Reinhard Extermination Camps. The discovery of the photo album when Kurt Franz was arrested on 2 December 1959 is mentioned by German public prosecutor Manfred Blank on pages 46/47 of the book NS – Prozesse. Nach 25 Jahren Strafverfolgung: Möglichkeiten – Grenzen – Ergebnisse, edited by Adalbert Rückerl. Blank also mentions that the album was no longer complete when found, several photos having been torn out and their captions having been erased. As to photo # 5: http://holocaust-info.dk/treblinka/i...mass_grave.htm all sources I have seen attribute it to Treblinka, but I’m not sure if it is also from Kurt Franz’s album. According to http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/photos.html , this photo is kept in the German Federal Archives under No. 183-F0918-0201-011. When I have time I’ll contact the Federal Archives and ask them what information they have about the photographer. Meanwhile, bigmouth Gerdes should do the following: 1. Provide any indication he can come up with that, contrary to what becomes apparent from all source references and all associated evidence, photos # 1 to # 5 were not taken in the area of Treblinka extermination camp during or after its liberation; 2. Explain what, if not a corner of a mass grave in which the bodies are mostly covered by wooden planks and what looks like tarpaulin sheet, photo # 5 under http://holocaust-info.dk/treblinka/i...mass_grave.htm is supposed to show; 3. Regarding those of the excavator photos that Alex Bay managed to locate inside the area of Treblinka II as shown on the September 1944 photograph (see the quotes in my post # 54) explain what these excavators could possibly have been doing in what Gerdes claims was a "transit camp". 4. Regarding the marked-up air photo shown under http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r1944_edit.jpg , answer the question what, if not mass graves in a section of the camp where eyewitnesses described mass graves – namely what that would be compatible with your "transit camp" theory – the ground scarring shapes I pointed out are supposed to have been. 5. Regarding the ground photos shown under the following links: http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/lasttracks.html http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5808_1_web.jpg http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5813_1_web.jpg http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5808_1_web.jpg http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...GoldRush_3.jpg , answer the question what, if not parts of the former Treblinka extermination camp and especially the burial area described in the Polish site investigation reports of 13 November and 29 December 1945 quoted in my article Polish investigations of the Treblinka killing site were a complete failure … under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...treblinka.html, these photos are supposed to show. 6. Regarding the above-mentioned site investigation reports, answer the question why, i.e. on the basis of what rules or standards of evidence he can show us, Gerdes doesn’t include these written descriptions of the physical evidence on site in the record of physical evidence to the Treblinka mass killings. 7. Regarding the documentary and eyewitness evidence listed in my Topix post # 482 under http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...H7P8C/p23#c482 , answer the question why, i.e. on the basis of what rules or standards of evidence he can show us, Gerdes doesn’t include this documentary and eyewitness evidence in the record of evidence to the Treblinka mass killings. 8. Regarding his claim that Treblinka was a "transit camp", answer the question where the about 750,000 people deported to Treblinka in 1942/43 are supposed to have been "transited" to from there, and show evidence regarding their transportation to such places and their accommodation there. As the Germans would have had no reason to destroy the records of an innocuous resettlement operation, there should be plenty such evidence around. 8 questions for Mr. Gerdes to answer, most or all of which have been asked before. When will Gerdes stop making demands the relevance of which he cannot explain while running away from my pertinent and substantiated questions? Quote:
of mass graves in the respective area by eyewitnesses) are proof that these were mass graves unless and until you can come up with a plausible alternative explanation, one that is compatible with your "transit camp" theory. When you have provided such explanation, the ball may be in my court again. Until then, it is in yours. Quote:
So, Gerdes, what is your fucking justification for trying to restrict the record of evidence to photographs alone? I’m eagerly waiting for your answer to this question, Mr. Gerdes. And I recommend that you try coming up with an answer and don't run away again, unless you want even your sympathetic "White" buddies to conclude that you are a repetitive charlatan without arguments who does more harm than good to their cause. |
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June 14th, 2008 | #62 | |||||||
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Don’t you read my posts before hitting the keyboard, Mr. Gerdes? Quote:
Or did you read it with those usual tomato slices covering your eyes, which kept you from seeing the photographs included in that article? Quote:
Now how about you doing something for a change, Mr. Gerdes? How about you getting up your fat Nazi ass and doing something other than yell for exhibits of minor or no relevance or for information about such exhibits, instead of, say, trying to answer my above questions? You’re in no position to play the expectant princess, Gerdes. My case has been made, with or without photographs. But I still have to see any evidence, however tiny and insignificant, that would support your "transit camp" theory. Quote:
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On the other hand, it may be that Franz was sick enough to also include such photos in his album, considering that, as was mentioned by German public prosecutor Blank, some photos had been torn out of the album and the captions erased by the time Franz was arrested. Quote:
And as you like to play silly games, I’ll add another question to the eight in my previous post, one that is closely related to question number 2 and therefore becomes number 3, the following questions being renumbered accordingly: 1. Provide any indication he can come up with that, contrary to what the becomes apparent from all source references and all associated evidence, photos # 1 to # 5 were not taken in the area of Treblinka extermination camp during or after its liberation; 2. Explain what, if not a corner of a mass grave in which the bodies are mostly covered by wooden planks and what looks like tarpaulin sheet, photo # 5 under http://holocaust-info.dk/treblinka/i...mass_grave.htm is supposed to show; 3. Explain what, if not dead bodies or parts of dead bodies, the figures I pointed out on the “mass graves” photograph, see under http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...grave_edit.jpg , are supposed to be. 4. Regarding those of the excavator photos that Alex Bay managed to locate inside the area of Treblinka II as shown on the September 1944 photograph (see the quotes in my post # 54) explain what these excavators could possibly have been doing in what Gerdes claims was a "transit camp". 5. Regarding the marked-up air photo shown under http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...r1944_edit.jpg , answer the question what, if not mass graves in a section of the camp where eyewitnesses described mass graves – namely what that would be compatible with your "transit camp" theory – the ground scarring shapes I pointed out are supposed to have been. 6. Regarding the ground photos shown under the following links: http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/lasttracks.html http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5808_1_web.jpg http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5813_1_web.jpg http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...GoldRush_3.jpg , answer the question what, if not parts of the former Treblinka extermination camp and especially the burial area described in the Polish site investigation reports of 13 November and 29 December 1945 quoted in my article Polish investigations of the Treblinka killing site were a complete failure … under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...treblinka.html , these photos are supposed to show. 7. Regarding the above-mentioned site investigation reports, answer the question why, i.e. on the basis of what rules or standards of evidence he can show us, Gerdes doesn’t include these written descriptions of the physical evidence on site in the record of physical evidence to the Treblinka mass killings. 8. Regarding the documentary and eyewitness evidence listed in my Topix post # 482 under http://www.topix.com/forum/history/T...H7P8C/p23#c482 , answer the question why, i.e. on the basis of what rules or standards of evidence he can show us, Gerdes doesn’t include this documentary and eyewitness evidence in the record of evidence to the Treblinka mass killings. 9. Regarding his claim that Treblinka was a "transit camp", answer the question where the about 750,000 people deported to Treblinka in 1942/43 are supposed to have been "transited" to from there, and show evidence regarding their transportation to such places and their accommodation there. As the Germans would have had no reason to destroy the records of an innocuous resettlement operation, there should be plenty such evidence around. Nine questions for you, Mr. Gerdes. As I said before, it’s time for you to get up your fat and lazy Nazi ass. |
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June 14th, 2008 | #63 |
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Roberta:
"Provide any indication that, contrary to what becomes apparent from all source references and all associated evidence, photos # 1 to # 5 were not taken in the area of Treblinka extermination camp during or after its liberation" Your being unable to provide the name of the photographer or the date the photo was taken and the fact that not an iota of physical evidence in photos # 1 & 5 can place the photo at Treblinka, makes photos # 1 & 5 inadmissible. Photos # 1 & 5 - stricken. Roberta: "Regarding photo # 2, I have no idea by whom it was taken." And of course you have no idea when it was taken or any proof what-so-ever that it was taken at Treblinka. Photo # 2 - stricken. Photo # 3 will remain in your evidence file (for the time being at least) and I'm still waiting for the date the excavator photos were taken. |
June 14th, 2008 | #64 |
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I'll rephrase my question about the following photos:
http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...GoldRush_2.jpg http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...GoldRush_3.jpg Roberta, in what form did you read the "Treblinka Gold Rush" newspaper article you mention? Did you actually see the "paper" edition of this newspaper, or did you just see an internet webpage version? Have you ever seen the actual paper edition of this "newspaper" article? And again Roberta, for those two photos, give us the name of the photographer, the date the photos were taken and the location in the camp that they were allegedly taken in. If you don't know the name, tell us you don't know the name. If you don't know the date, tell us you don't know the date. If you don't know the alleged location in the camp, tell us you don't know the alleged location. That's all the information we need for the moment Roberta, so please spare us another one of your insane diatribes. |
June 14th, 2008 | #65 | |
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RabbitNoMore But all jews do speak in absolutes though. Just like you. ----------- Define idiot |
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June 14th, 2008 | #66 |
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I get it: the mods, in their infinite wisdom have decided that you're really an asset and allowed you into the forum proper. That's great as I think you're an ambassador par excellence de la 'caust. Shine on you crazy diamond.
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June 15th, 2008 | #67 | |||||||
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Not that it matters, but I can clearly identify the author of photo # 3 under http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5808_1_web.jpg and demonstrate on hand of Mattogno & Graf’s writings that the photographer belonged to the examining judge’s team that investigated the Treblinka site between 6 and 13 November 1945, which in turn means that the photo was taken in that time-span. I can also explain, and have explained, why it is reasonable to assume that photo # 1 under http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5813_1_web.jpg pertains to the same investigation and was thus taken within the same time-span by the same photographer. Regarding photos # 4 under http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/excavators2.html , I have provided two further sources, including the writings of a public prosecutor about the arrest of Kurt Franz and the discovery of his Treblinka photo album, which confirm the information under http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/excavators.html that these photos were part of said album. And in regard to all 5 photos, I’m doing something that is not my encumbrance, for it is not for me to provide all data related to these photos. It is for Gerdes, the expectant princess and lazy Nazi bugger, to at least provide a good reason for suspecting that these photos were not taken where their sources state and all associated evidence show them to have been taken. Quote:
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June 15th, 2008 | #68 | ||||||||
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Here it is again, to save you the trouble of scrolling back: Quote:
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And when you’re finished reading, I suggest you get up your fat and lazy Nazi ass and try answering my nine questions to you: Quote:
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June 15th, 2008 | #69 |
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Roberto, you're no "proud German"; you're another Jew imposter. Intelligence doesn't stop you from being the most infantile ranting twat. You've spammed this thread with your feelings and assumptions.
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June 15th, 2008 | #70 |
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I'm going to make this so simple that, hopefully, even a retard like Roberta can understand it.
Roberta: "I saw the internet webpage version at a time when it still had the photos in it, and I also have a paper version of the article." Ah yes, Roberta admits that the internet version of the article has no such photos, but she assures us that at one time it did. Mmmmmmm. We'll get to that later. But notice that she didn't tell us whether or not the paper version of said article had the photos in question, or any photos, accompanying it. So.... Question #1 - Does the News"paper" version of this article have any photos accompanying it? Yes or No? Question #2 - If the answer to the above question is yes, then answer this follow-up question - Are they the same 4 photos that appear in your RODOH post? Yes or No? Question #3 - Do you know the name of the person who took this photo: http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...GoldRush_2.jpg Yes or No? Question #4 - Do you know the name of the person who took this photo: http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c1...GoldRush_3.jpg Yes or No? So Roberta, your next post should have some very simple answers to some very simple questions, and those answers need only be a YES or a NO, unless of course you can provide us with the name of the person who took the photo(s). That's all the information we need for the moment Roberta, so please spare us another one of your insane diatribes. |
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By the way where the fuck are the photographs of this camouflaged operation? It says aerial observation, where are the pictures? Quote:
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Unbelievable bullshit: Quote:
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There would be tons of trace chlorine still underground mixed with ashes. Quote:
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June 15th, 2008 | #72 |
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Roberta:
"Some bombs or shells may have landed in the Treblinka area during fighting between Soviet and German forces in 1944, but the craters mentioned in the Polish site investigation reports seem to be mainly the work of robbery diggers." Keep the above quote in mind, because this is one of Roberta's lies that she will be called on later. We're getting to that, but Roberta has gone into serious stall mode, as I'm sure you all can tell. Roberta: "Anyway, please keep up the discussion. Talking to you is far more interesting than talking to Gerdes, the repetitive bore (whose latest posts I will address later, just so as not to offend the poor fellow by ignoring them)." Roberta's calling my questions repetitive and boring because she's struggling and stalling and trying her hardest to avoid having to answer them. You will notice how the more simple my questions become, the longer and more obfuscating her diatribes become. It's a sign of her desperation. She senses that she's getting cornered, like a rat being cornered by a terrier. Her answering psychologicalshock's questions are a way for her to try and avoid the inevitable. (It's not going to work Roberta.) So to help move this along.... Roberta, what this has come down to, mostly, is the photos from: 1 - The Aug. 22 & 23 1944 Soviet investigation. 2 - The Nov. 9, 10, 11 & 13 1945 Polish investigation. 3 - Those alleged "Kurt Franz album." 4 - Miscellaneous (Don't think this is a place to put your stricken photos. I only include this just so there is someplace to put photos that are still in question and/or no solid determination has been made.) So Roberta, to give you a heads up (and to keep you from getting bored), start compiling your evidence file in those four categories. And get them compiled as individual photos. No more montages with irrelevant and stricken photos included are going to be allowed into evidence. |
June 16th, 2008 | #73 | |
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Ah, and one doesn’t have to be Jewish to dislike "White" or Nazi or "Revisionist" or whatever BS. Get used to the idea. |
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June 16th, 2008 | #74 | ||||||
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Now that I have answered to your irrelevant questions, Mr. Gerdes, how about trying to answer my questions, which are rather more relevant? These questions: Quote:
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The issue is simply the following: there’s a hole 7.5 meters deep, described in a site investigation report, that both the contents of the report and all associated evidence suggest to have been a mass grave. You are claiming that the site investigation report was manipulated. The argument underlying your claim is that the type of excavator shown on Kurt Franz’s photos under http://www.death-camps.org/treblinka/excavators2.html couldn’t have dug pits this deep. Someone else doesn’t share this opinion but writes the following under http://www.holocaust-history.org/Tre...thcampp7.shtml : Quote:
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More important, show what excavators this size they had in the 1940s to dig foundations of buildings more than 20 floors high. Quote:
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That seems to be it regarding Wiernik’s testimony. As you can see, even the supposed whoppers therein are not as outrageously implausible as you would like them to be. And even if they were, would this necessarily mean his whole testimony is unreliable? No, for Wiernik may have perceived or recollected certain details wrongly but other correctly, and he may also have included events he only knew from hearsay (the "leaping girl" episode is a likely candidate) in his account. All this means is that, as I said, Wiernik’s testimony should not be taken at face value in all respects. But there’s no problem with accepting it where it is not only plausible but also confirmed by other evidence independent of Wiernik. Examples of such independent corroboration are pointed out in my article under http://holocaustcontroversies.blogsp...norant_03.html , for instance this one: Quote:
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I’m also "Goy", by the way. One doesn’t have to be Jewish to dislike "White" or Nazi or "Revisionist" or whatever BS. Quote:
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What I wrote about the Nazis salvaging even spectacles and undergarments is based on the Nazis’ own documentation about the plunder of the people they murdered, some of which you may read under http://www.death-camps.org/reinhard/arloot.htm Quote:
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I agree that where forensic evidence contradicts what becomes apparent from eyewitness testimony there must be something wrong with the latter, but that’s not what we have here. What documented forensic evidence we have does not contradict the other evidence, but corroborates it (as was, by the way, already stated in the paragraph you quoted – you missed the term "physical evidence"). Quote:
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June 16th, 2008 | #76 | ||||||||
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I’ll be glad to provide a complete list of the German documents, eyewitness testimonies, site investigation reports describing the physical evidence and photographs of that evidence I have shown, quoted or referred to throughout this discussion – after Gerdes has answered my questions. These questions: Quote:
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June 16th, 2008 | #77 | |
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What's reasonable or substantiated about your homosexual insinuations? What's reasonable about the way you assume this is a controlled environment? What about the assumption that you understand the meaning of my faith? By sheer verbosity you are the rant master. I have no interest in talking revisionism with an assuming, delusional Jew. I'm not going to pretend ad hominem is debate. |
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June 16th, 2008 | #78 |
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I have no faith in the Jew presentation of German efficiency. This is what happened to the bones of hundreds of thousands of Jews; behold The Megacrusher:
Note the meek Jews, heads bowed while the burly guard is alert and menacing with pointed gun. Jew fantasy as usual. |
June 16th, 2008 | #79 |
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Roberta:
"The infantile ranting twats on this thread are you and Gerdes, while ps at least tries to make points. If Gerdes and you want to do "Revisionism" a favor, you should leave the discussion to ps." PS, may I make a suggestion? Please don't take this wrong, I don't mean to tell you what to say or how to say it. BUT I brought this "debate" here because it was an archeology forum, and I wanted to keep the debate focused on the physical evidence - i.e. - evidence that could be described as that having being found via archeological methods and the photographic documentation of the "evidence." Roberta wants to "debate" with you because she's gotten you to respond to the nonsensical "eyewitness" crap she's peddling. Not that your response about the German firearms and cartridges / bullets wasn't very good or scientific in it's scope, and you've offered many other good scientifically valid points, but I think she wants to "discuss" this with you because you've ventured into the fantasy world of the "eyewitness" testimony. Again, I'm not trying to tell you what to do or say, but may I suggest that you not go into any of the "eyewitness" BS. And again, it's not because you couldn't and aren't kicking her ass, it's just that she wins no matter what when the focus of this "debate" gets away from the physical evidence (or more correctly - lack thereof) and gets into her Alice in Wonderland physically impossible tall tales. What I'm trying to say is, if she can get you to ask the wrong questions, it doesn't matter what answers you come up with. As long as the subject gets off course - she wins. That's her / the jew way. So just don't go there. My mantra for this thread is - Physical evidence. I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. |
June 16th, 2008 | #80 |
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OK, let's do a little photo analysis, shall we?
Below is the photo that Roberta has entered into evidence and insists is a photo of: "One of the enormous pits in the Treblinka camp into which the victims' corpses (and later, ashes) were thrown." http://www.infocenters.co.il/gfh_mul...5813_1_web.jpg And below is a photo of the gravel pit of Treblinka I. (© Carlo Mattogno, 1997.) http://vho.org/GB/Books/t/Image175.jpg Now folks, what do you see? And here is a question specifically for Roberta: In the top photo, what do you see? Please show us your photo analysis skills and point out everything you can that can be identified. You say you want the photos that you entered into evidence to stay in evidence? Then prove how good you are at photo analysis. Again Roberta, point out every detail in your photo that can be identified. Just make a list and try to keep it simple. And for gods sake spare us another one of your insane diatribes. |
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