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Old March 13th, 2009 #1
Axel Faaborg
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Default Kurt Saxon - The Cult of Conspiracy

Thoughts? This seems to me to be very valid in many aspects, mainly his criticisms of the conspiracy "movement." Though it appears that this was written in the mid-90s, it's just as valid as today:

The Cult Of Conspiracy
By Kurt Saxon
In 1964 I joined the John Birch Society. After all, if the Communists were even killing our presidents, it was time I did something about it. I felt so important, knowing all the behind-the-scenes treason going on at the highest levels of international politics. Well, they would have to reckon with me at last.

I read American Opinion from cover to cover every month, plus dozens of other periodicals and books exposing the International Communist Conspiracy. They told it all, even about the Jews. Page after page showed Jewish faces over Jewish names, always at the forefront and behind the scenes, but never once did the term "Jew" appear. The John Birch Society was not anti-Jewish, you see.

Of course they covered all the plots hatched and maintained by the Bildebergers, Trilateralists, Rothchilds, Council of Foreign Relations, etc. They didn't want to leave anyone out. And if we, the members, would only contribute and subscribe and buy all the books, the John Birch Society would alert the American masses and so drive the American traitors out of office and put a stop to the international fiends subverting the American way of life.

I had been sucked into the Conspiracy Cult, along with thousands of others. Even so, I began to realize that the Birchers were just a plot-of-the-month club. They would take any rumor and write about it as if it were an established fact. They would project it as an emergency, get all their members excited into contributing more, and when nothing came of it, they would come up with another dangerous plot for the next month's issue.

I next joined Robert Bolivar DePugh's Minutemen. Here was action! Well aside from a few bands running around the Arizona and California deserts practicing guerrilla warfare, but with no enemy in sight, it was still more action that the Birchers offered. Also, the Minutemen newsletter did illustrate several improvised weapons.

But with no contact with "the enemy" and no lessening of Communist gains worldwide and especially in the U.S., I was desperate to get into the real fight. After all, colleges were being taken over by leftist students. Hundreds of thousands of leftists were rioting in the streets. There were even black-pajama clad Viet Cong imitators marching in the streets carrying Viet Cong flags.

So I joined the American Nazi Party and became a uniformed Stormtrooper. Here was fighting in the streets, rioting and spreading terror among all those who threatened Mother, apple pie and the American Way of Life.

With the Nazis, the Conspiracy was full-blown. Jews all over the place. And action! As soon as we attacked one leftist group there was another to be destroyed. Of course, after each conquest we had to spend a couple of months boasting to each other about the last action before we would get around to the next adventure. The partying was as much fun as the fighting and they were indeed a great bunch of drinking buddies.

That was twenty-eight years ago. With all the plots exposed, with all the disasters foretold, few of which actually happened, life went on. Of course, more ignorant women had more children, born only to consume and pollute, rob, rape, maim and murder. The I.Q. went lower and the morons marched. Not only did they march, but they increasingly voted for dumber politicians who would give them more Welfare and be softer on crime.

But even though these real causes of the nation's problems were becoming more and
more obvious, the Birchers and others cashing in on the Conspiracy market kept the myths alive.

The overall Conspiracy myth was begun by the John Birch Society in the 1950's, but its basis began soon after the Communist takeover of Russia. The Russian Revolution was actually launched and won by Kerensky and his Mensheviks in March of 1917. Kerensky was a Socialist and won because his program was acceptable to the working class. Lenin and his more radical Bolsheviks overthrew Kerensky and imposed the harsh and ruinous dictatorship most are familiar with.

The Bolsheviks, after their overall victory in Russia, began sending out spies and infiltrators to the rest of the world with their slogan, "Workers of the world unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains".

They made little headway in the U.S. until the Great Depression, during which they built up quite a party. Even then, they were no real threat. Their party shrunk to almost nothing during the war, even though the U.S. was allied with Russia.

Of course, espionage did flourish during and directly after the war. The Jews did have a stake in the allied victory, because of Nazi persecution. And since Russia was an ally, many Jews were more than soft on Communism.

The Jewish flirtation with Commun- ism was indeed damaging and caused much hatred of Jews among certain factions here. Even so, those anti-Jewish factions over-reacted with the charge that Communism itself was Jewish.

It is true that many Bolsheviks were Jews. However, it is also true that nearly all the Jews who helped to establish Communism in Russia were killed by Stalin, a non-Jew.

If the Jews were so clever and powerful in the Communist government,
why did they let Stalin weed them out? The Jews simply were not in control and were of no major importance. Even so, the Jews have been a source of profit to the Conspiracy Cult to this day.

As the Cold War heated up and America was further infiltrated by subversives, our Congress and Senate seemed largely blind to the Communist menace. In the 1950's the John Birch Society grew and spread the idea that our government was filled with traitors who wanted to turn our country over to the Soviets. Many believed this, myself included, and a great market was created among the anxious but ill-informed.

The people spreading the nonsense of treason had to know better. They had a broad frame of reference and so could see that their constant projections of imminent takeover were not happening. But they had a market. It is certain that most of them who had at one time believed in a takeover had learned the errors in their program. To accuse men of wealth and power of wanting to turn over that wealth and power to others was simply silly. But by this time they were making a good living and didn't want to give it up.

As the population grew and more of our productive capacity was wasted on non-achievers, underachievers and wasteful social programs, which seemed like a good idea at the time, our economy suffered.

In 1900 our population was around sixty million. Today, less than a hundred years later, it is over two hundred and sixty million, an increase of 300%. As the population grew and the intelligent were too busy and too practical to have more than two or three children, if any, the less intelligent had several. This caused our nation to be overrun with incompetents who so outnumber the competent among us that our system is unmanageable and in decline.

The less intelligent majority, having the power of the vote, have voted in the most dis-
honest, the most greedy and the most stupid
politicians. These politicians, in turn, have wasted our resources on the millions of near-morons who keep them in office.

As our decline became more noticeable the Conspiracy Cultists stepped up their campaign to recruit believers in Communist plots and official treason. As their market grew, the Conspiracy Cultists grew richer and ever more dishonest.

And then the bottom threatened to drop out of the Conspiracy market. European Communism collapsed! Communism was a looter system and unworkable at best. But as the European population grew, there were just too many people to both support and to dominate.

Worse yet, Stalin had made it a practice to kill everyone with a good mind who might be a threat. As the population naturally became down-bred, Stalin's destruction of brainpower worsened things. So European Communism was simply swamped with incompetents, leaving Russia the nation of morons and criminals it is today.

In spite of European Communism's obvious failure, many Conspiracy Cultists promoted the idea that it was all a fake; that the collapse was pretended, just to put Americans off guard. This lie worked just long enough for the Conspiracy Cultists to build another fabric of lies to keep their sucker market.

The actor-politician, Ronald Reagan had given a lot of publicity to The New World Order. George Bush took up the cry, promising worldwide economic cooperation. It was to be an improvement over the European Common Market. There was nothing sinister about it. The idea died among the world's politicians, none wanting to give up any degree of sovereignty or personal power.

But after the collapse of European
Communism, the New World Order idea
was revived by the Conspiracy Cultists. Now it was sinister and a threat to every freedom-loving American. There was nothing to it. But by adding Jews, Trilateralists, the Council of Foreign Relations, the Bildebergers, the Rothchilds, the Rockefellers and the Clintons, the New World Order replaced the Communist menace and the Conspiracy Cultists, such as William Cooper, Bo Gritz, Tom Valentine, Chuck Harder, Jack McLamb, Linda Thompson, etc., kept their flocks of sheep to shear.

Going on year after year, these Conspiracy Cult leaders continue to blame individuals and groups for what would happen even if the named enemy did not exist. What if the Jews, Trilateralists, Council of Foreign Relations, Bildebergers, Rothchilds, Rockefellers and Clintons were to disappear? What would change? Would there be less rampaging morons, robbing, raping, maiming and murdering? Would there be less fertile welfare recipients breeding like rats? Would there be less dope coming in from Columbia's Medayene Cartel or the Golden Triangle in Asia for billions in profits?

And after a year without these sinister plotters, what would change? Would there be less people, less crime, less dope, less perversion, less welfare? Of course not. The only change would be that the Conspiracy Cultists would have to invent an entirely new set of enemies so as to stay in business.

Belief in widespread conspiracies directed against individuals or the state is probably the most common form assumed by the human mind when it loses its balance and its sense of proportion. Instead of helping such people to straighten out their thinking and recognize the real threats to their system and persons, the Conspiracy Cultists have, in a sense, sold their souls to the Devil. They make a living while producing nothing. They gain followers yet lead them nowhere. They make people believe what they themselves do not believe. They exalt themselves as semidivine messengers of God while they tell easily exposed lies. They appeal to the patriotic yet preach only defeatism, building up the enemy as invincible and promising concentration camps for all who would resist. According to them, inaction, surrender and submission to enslavement is the only way to stay alive.

At the same time, they encourage the purchase of expensive rapid-fire guns, even as they promise their confiscation. They encourage the buying of gold, silver and rare coins while promising concentration camps where any valuables would be confiscated.

There is no logic to their programs, no consistency. Yet they style themselves as the only hope for the American way of life. They give only hints of individual action. Starting a business whereby one could become less dependent on a dying system and be an asset to their neighbors is alien to them.

Their emphasis is often on standard weapons to combat Federal or U.N. troops, which would be suicidal. In situations where their followers would meet regular military, their guns would only guarantee defeat.

Anyone with any military sense knows that the only way to combat an army of occupation is through irregular warfare. The average G.I. in Vietnam seldom saw an armed V.C. Most American casualties were from mines and booby traps. V.C. irregulars fought and defeated the most advanced army of the time.

Even so, except for the mindless ranting of the Conspiracy Cultists, there is no indication of foreign occupation, its possibility or necessity. Nor is there reason to believe that our government would be willing or able to turn on its own citizens.

What will happen after the collapse is burning cities, refugees fanning out over the
countrysides and rurals pitted against them. There will be bandit gangs to be fought and
possibly unattached military units. These can be dealt with by the use of improvised
weaponry in the hands of local militias.

When one listens to a Conspiracy Cultist on short wave radio or talks to one indoctrinated by the Conspiracy Cult, it can sound pretty frightening. However, experience has shown me that they talk a great game but won't play.

Over the years I have met hundreds of this type. A typical believer falls into a general category. The main characteristic of one indoctrinated into the Conspiracy Cult is his unadaptability. People who are unadaptable can't survive radical change. The decline of his social system has to be a plot. He knows he could not survive outside it. The Conspiracy Cult assures him that something can be done to save the system he depends on to save his very life.

He hasn't seen much of the world. He has little sense of history. He is poorly educated. He is relatively inexperienced. He is in some dead-end job, if employed at all and unaccomplished. He is, in short, unimportant, but thinks he would be if the system wasn't stacked against him.

Then he gets a copy of some Conspiracy Cultist's newsletter or meets an indoctrinated follower. The Jews, Trilateralists, Council on Foreign Relations, Bildebergers, Rothchilds, Rockefellers and Clintons are all lined up against him.

They have not only ruined his chances for success but now they are secretly occupying his country. Now he knows things that few others know. This makes him feel important.

But so few know these things that he is a danger to the enemy and he is a threat to them. So now he is another in a small army of those who are aware, alert, frightened and frustrated.

His type isn't numerous enough to alarm our government but he fantasizes that the Feds have him in their sights. I don't think his kind numbers a hundred thousand and they are spread too thinly and are too disorganized for group action. Individually, they are too timid
and fearful to be a threat to anyone. The only way I can see one of them shooting anyone would be be if neighbors complained of a blustering, armed nut and the authorities had to be called. Then he would consider the police inquiry as his own Alamo and go down in a bloody heap of panicked paranoia.

The Conspiracy Cultists would love this and I believe they are indirectly encouraging it. Randy Weaver was a real bankroll and David Koresh was another. The Conspiracy Cultists like nothing better than to hold up some paranoid loser who invites assault by the authorities, as a martyred patriot. "You're next", they say to their followers as they rake in the donations.

So remember, no matter how detailed and elaborate the lie, no matter how many believe it, a lie is a lie. Don't believe things you can't check. To believe without real evidence is stupidity. To believe in spite of evidence to the contrary is insanity.

FOOTNOTE: In light of the treasonous bombing in Oklahoma City, it is urgent that anyone associated with any Conspiracy Cult, whatever its label or level of activity, break off and distance himself from any such group. The rage of the American people will mark such cultists as evil and those continuing to spread the Cult message may be met with hostility and even violence.
The authorities will now be armed with the legal tools to tag all Conspiracy Cultists with the stigma of dangerous subversives. (SEDITION: Incitement of resistance to or insurrection against lawful authority) This can result in close surveillance, arrest on suspicion, loss of employment, etc. Not surprisingly, the bombing could bring on just such government repression as the Conspiracy Cultists have been wrongly accusing the government of doing.
At any rate, break off and drop those dangerous fantasies. The Conspiracy Cult leaders have nothing but lies to sell anyway. You will lose nothing by making them work for a living.

Think for yourself. Give your life a constructive purpose. Learn to take care of yourself and your loved ones. Become an asset to your community. You can do no more. And to do less will decrease your own chances for survival in the hard times ahead.
 
Old March 13th, 2009 #2
Tom McReen
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Doesn't Kurt Saxon shill for Alex Jones now?

I also remember Bill Cooper naming him as a Fed agent.
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Old March 13th, 2009 #3
Axel Faaborg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom McReen View Post
Doesn't Kurt Saxon shill for Alex Jones now?
Not from what I've seen perusing his site over the past couple days. I would highly doubt it, because the subject of this essay would seem to indict Jones almost perfectly.

Quote:
I also remember Bill Cooper naming him as a Fed agent.
If you could find some information of that it would be greatly appreciated.
 
Old March 13th, 2009 #4
Tom McReen
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Originally Posted by AZDane View Post
If you could find some information of that it would be greatly appreciated.
It's from memory, most of Cooper's web stuff got pulled a short while after he died. I also remember him railing against Art Bell. I still have that print-out somewhere.

Edit: I got Kurt Saxon confused with Kurt Nimmo on Alex Jones' show. My mistake.
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Old March 13th, 2009 #5
Tom McReen
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No need to dig out the print-out I found it online, Majesty Twelve:

http://www.conspiracyresearch.org/fo...=0&#entry25872

Quote:
Many of the so-called Patriot leaders such as Lt.Col. James "Bo" Gritz Freemason/Illuminati, Tom Valentine Stelle Group/Illuminati, Lars Hansson Stelle Group/Illuminati US Customs Service, Mark Koernke Change Agent (misinformation), Kurt Saxon Illuminati, Dr. Peter Beter Illuminati, and many others are actually change agents of Illuminati socialism or the Intelligence community as a part of Project Trojan Horse. Hegel would be proud to see how the socialists have engineered and controlled both sides of the conflict in order to control the ultimate outcome.

NB: I don't agree with everything Bill Cooper ever said and I don't know enough about Kurt Saxon to make any personal judgement. He also slams Pierce in this essay, I didn't remember that.

Make of it what you will.
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Old March 13th, 2009 #6
Joe_J.
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I remember Kurt. He had his own shortwave show in the 90s. LOL, he's kind of a hypocrite. He sold the Poor Man's James Bond and reprinted Popular Mechanics from the early 1900s, putting the articles into one volume. He did have some practical stuff in those books he sold.

A lot of what he says in that piece I do agree with, with the exception of the jew. First of all, the only patriotard willing to name the jew has been Mark Koernke, and he doesn't hit on it that often. Alex Jones won't name the jew and Bill Cooper has a vid on youtube that someone titled "Bill Cooper, It's Not The Jews". '


Anyway, thanks for posting that. It was a good read and, in many ways, very, very accurate.

Quote:
The Poor Man's James Bond is a four book series originally intended for the survivalist-minded, compiled by Kurt Saxon. They were marketed toward the survivalist movement of the 1970s and 1980s, and as a counterpoint to The Anarchist Cookbook which Saxon believed contained inaccurate information. The first volume was an expansion of an earlier Saxon book, The Militant's Formulary.
According to Saxon, during the 1960s he sent brochures about The Militant's Formulary to "several thousand" police and fire chiefs. His stated purpose was that, as a result of several officers being killed by "improvised weaponry directed at them by radicals", police and fire departments could use the literature "to recognize improvised bombs and such and their common components". However, some of the recipients believed Saxon to be a radical, and sent letters stating this fact to the police in Saxon's hometown of Eureka, California. In response, the chief of the Eureka Police Department replied with letters assuring the others that Saxon was "on their side".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Poo...27s_James_Bond

Quote:
During the 1960s, Saxon drifted into and out of several political organizations and new religious movements, including the American Nazi Party, the John Birch Society, the Minutemen, the Church of Scientology, and the Church of Satan. In August 1970, he appeared before a Senate Investigations subcommittee holding hearings on bombings and terrorism. According to newspaper accounts, he suggested police and "concerned citizens" use bombs to wipe out "leftists," and recommended that student demonstrators be machine-gunned in the streets.[1]
By the early 1970s he came to reject the political and religious groups of the 60s, and began writing on homesteading and preparedness issues. He claims to have coined the term "survivalism"[2] to refer to making preparations for a future collapse of society and/or a major disaster.
In the early 1990s, Saxon had a shortwave radio program over WRNO, New Orleans, Louisiana.[3]

Saxon is fond of describing contemporary society as a "Disneyland for Dummies" and predicts civilization's imminent collapse. When that occurs, only those who are prepared and rooted in practical knowledge--as opposed to any particular political or religious ideology--will survive. Saxon sees his mission as collecting and disseminating such knowledge and thereby ensuring the survival of the "best of our species."
Despite joining with the political right on many issues, Saxon has often announced his support for abortion and often spoke about his atheistic views.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Saxon

From his website (hey, is he a VNNer?):

Quote:
Our species has become a plague on the land. Worldwide, we have out-bred the carrying capacities of our environments and our socioeconomic systems. Our country is swamped with morons and degenerates. The Mexican border has become a huge anus through which Mexico excretes its waste matter. There are at least eight million Muslims here, all too many of which, feel commanded to destroy us.

U.S. population was just under 100 million in1900. Today it is 300 million, 100 million non-white.
The insane middle-east war against Islam is further ruining our economy.
Overpopulation and down-breeding has reduced the level of reasoning of the average human to that of a baboon. A terrible culling is due, or overdue, of more than 50% of our population who will die of starvation, disease and/or violence.

http://www.kurtsaxon.com/

There is a lot of information on his site, AZDane.

In fact, the jewish mystery is especially interesting and ends with this:

Quote:
The American Nazi Party ended with Rockwell's murder in 1967. The California storm-troopers then organized The Iron Cross Motorcycle Club. I wrote about their adventures in my book "Wheels Of Rage", which you can read here in full on this web site.
http://www.kurtsaxon.com/tbm_0000.htm

and links that allow you to read the docs he found in the building he rented along with Stormtrooper magazines.
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Last edited by Joe_J.; March 13th, 2009 at 08:27 PM.
 
Old March 13th, 2009 #7
Tom McReen
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Quote:
Bill Cooper has a vid on youtube that someone titled "Bill Cooper, It's Not The Jews".
BC was definitely a constitutionalist patriot but not a racialist - he had an Asian wife. He was a Navy man so it's not difficult to see how that came about.

And yes, as anti-NWO as he was he rejected jews being responsible. That was one of the reasons I started to drift away from his stuff after he died as I began to learn more about the juden. I did learn a bit along the way from Cooper though. It was radical truth to me at the time.

He once wrote a long essay about the US civil war during which he pointed out how jews are not responsible for being in control of NWO. It was still interesting from a factual point of view but it was pulled after he died and I have not been able to track it down since.
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Old March 13th, 2009 #8
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He went through the sixties and he didn't notice that the commies had become neocons and were replacing Christianity with Zombies for Zionism?? I don't think he was looking very hard for a commie conspiracy. But if he was, he really blew it.
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Old March 13th, 2009 #9
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As for Mr. Saxon saying there is "no foreign occupation", or the real possibility of one, I would point out the comments that Chas Freeman made a few days ago after withdrawing from consideration for the National Intelligence job.

No foreign occupation, indeed.

He is right about many things, though. There is no conspiracy - the Jews don't have to meet in basements or fancy hotels to sort all this out. Their names are plastered all over nearly every manifestation of evil we see in society.

They just count on most of the people being too stupid, selfish, or lazy to give a damn.

Saxon reminds me of someone that got into the cause for the wrong reasons. If you really don't understand the Satanic nature of the Jews, why join the American Nazi Party? To drink and cause trouble? That's just foolishness.
 
Old March 13th, 2009 #10
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Bill Cooper was able to put together at least 24, 1 hour long, in great depth broadcasts about the religion of Mystery Babylon but was never able to see anything odd about Christianity or racial issues.
 
Old March 13th, 2009 #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10Bears View Post
Bill Cooper was able to put together at least 24, 1 hour long, in great depth broadcasts about the religion of Mystery Babylon but was never able to see anything odd about Christianity or racial issues.
I doubt if he was stupid. Cooper seemed to be a sharp guy. Maybe he was just scared shitless of the jew?
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Old March 14th, 2009 #12
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There are some valid points here but this guy is either stupid or being deceptive. He absolves the Jews of responsibility in Russia and doesn't see them working towards a globalist agenda in America. Based on that he can go screw himself.
 
Old March 14th, 2009 #13
Nate Richards
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Donald Eugene Sisco is a survivalist and is still trying to route some dollars his own way. Cant blame him.

He's right about the cults.

The way I feel about consipiracy is: If a cop can charge me with it, you can't tell me it doesn't exist.

Conspiracy is a serious charge. The gov takes it seriously and you should too.

"kurt saxon" can't make money off of it, so he shuns it. He is a true survivalist.

Old Kurt is a good teacher, but you have to take him with a grain of salt.

When he was still healthy he wrote a good article about thermos bottles. You can boil enough water to cook your food and let it sit in there 24 hours. You always have breakfast the next day. Very little fuel is used, because you just have to get the water boiling, and nobody smells the food cooking, because it is contained.

Trust me, when starvation is common around you, those food-cooking smells will get you killed. They can quite literally smell it a mile away.

Kurt is going PC and trying to keep the money coming in. Can't blame him. He is a true survivalist. He has openly stated that he is not racial, and we need to take him at his word.

He is a teacher, but not a leader. He is just trying to pay his bills.
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Old March 14th, 2009 #14
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Quote:
I doubt if he was stupid. Cooper seemed to be a sharp guy.
Not saying he was stupid.

Quote:
Maybe he was just scared shitless of the jew?
Probably so. I've never heard a radio talk host go as ballistic as Cooper did when a caller blamed the jew for destroying Disney.
Cooper was able to quote from old, obscure writings of Manly P. Hall and R. Swineburne Clymer but never mentioned anything about the similarities between Christianity, the Zodiac and Sun worship which everyone from David Icke to Tom Metzger have talked about. Seems like someone as well read and researched as Bill Cooper would stumble upon these things eventually, eh? Not to mention his PC views about NS Germany.

William Cooper is part of the reason I found this forum and similar others. I now regard "HOTT" as merely entertainment much like Alex Jones or Art Bell.

Sorry to steer the topic away from Kurt Saxon. I've never read any of his books but will. The last time I searched for some, they were a tad bit expensive for me.
 
Old March 14th, 2009 #15
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Quote:
blamed the jew for destroying Disney.
I haven't heard this show you guys are talking about, but that is a simple fact. The jews really did destroy Disney. Well, they took it over, which is even worse. They poison children now in the name of Walt Disney.
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Old March 14th, 2009 #16
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Quote:
Many of the so-called Patriot leaders such as Lt.Col. James "Bo" Gritz Freemason/Illuminati, Tom Valentine Stelle Group/Illuminati, Lars Hansson Stelle Group/Illuminati US Customs Service, Mark Koernke Change Agent (misinformation), Kurt Saxon Illuminati, Dr. Peter Beter Illuminati, and many others are actually change agents of Illuminati socialism or the Intelligence community as a part of Project Trojan Horse. Hegel would be proud to see how the socialists have engineered and controlled both sides of the conflict in order to control the ultimate outcome.
Yeah, so basically Cooper is saying that all of his competitors in the conspiracy/survivalist/patriotard market are a part of the Illuminati. Now what could he possibly gain by doing that?
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Old March 14th, 2009 #17
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Originally Posted by 10Bears View Post
I've never read any of his books but will. The last time I searched for some, they were a tad bit expensive for me.
http://btjunkie.org/search?q=kurt+saxon
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Old March 14th, 2009 #18
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Originally Posted by deathtozog View Post
I doubt if he was stupid. Cooper seemed to be a sharp guy. Maybe he was just scared shitless of the jew?
Cooper was a con man. Period.

The guy started out his career selling videotapes at UFO conferences. In his book, Behold A Pale Horse, he states without the slightest ambiguity that he witnessed -- with his very own eyes -- a giant UFO coming out of the water when he was serving in the Navy. Years later, he started saying that UFO's aren't real, that the government made them up, and that anyone claiming they exist is a government disinfo agent. So which is it?

If that's not being caught in an outright lie, what is?

Alex Jones has more credibility than Bill Cooper, and Alex Jones is full of shit.

Take Bill Cooper for what he was -- an entertainer, a showman. Now can we drop all this patriotard conspiracy nonsense and get on with the business of trying to create a political movement that the average disenfranchised white man can indentify with?
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Last edited by Igor Alexander; March 14th, 2009 at 09:06 AM.
 
Old March 14th, 2009 #19
Tom McReen
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Bill Cooper had pc views about jews and NS Germany yet he wrote 'The Ugly Truth About The ADL' and in it stated that jews vandalise their own gravestones to whip up support. Strange.
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Old March 14th, 2009 #20
Igor Alexander
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZDane View Post
Thoughts? This seems to me to be very valid in many aspects, mainly his criticisms of the conspiracy "movement." Though it appears that this was written in the mid-90s, it's just as valid as today:

The Cult Of Conspiracy
By Kurt Saxon
As much as I dislike certain aspects of the conspiracy subculture (especially the helpless spectator mentality it breeds in some of its adherents), it seems to me Kurt Saxon is peddling his own brand of bullshit here.

Quote:
It is true that many Bolsheviks were Jews. However, it is also true that nearly all the Jews who helped to establish Communism in Russia were killed by Stalin, a non-Jew.

If the Jews were so clever and powerful in the Communist government,
why did they let Stalin weed them out? The Jews simply were not in control and were of no major importance.
Just because Stalin started weeding out some of the Jews who were a threat to his power doesn't mean that Bolshevism wasn't at its origin a Jewish movement.

When the Bolshevik Jews in the U.S. turned on Moscow, following Stalin's purges and after it became clear to them that the Soviet Union was no longer totally under Jewish control, they became the group that's now known as the neo-conservatives.

Ever hear of the neo-cons, Mr. Saxon? They've hardly had an influence on American politics, now have they?

I believe much of the impetus for the Cold War following the McCarthy era was simply Jewish neo-con hatred for a state that had to some extent managed to throw off the Jewish yoke.

Quote:
In the 1950's the John Birch Society grew and spread the idea that our government was filled with traitors who wanted to turn our country over to the Soviets. Many believed this, myself included, and a great market was created among the anxious but ill-informed.
What happened in Russia overnight has been happening in the U.S. gradually over the last 60 years, though I don't discount the possibility that there were traitors in the U.S. who wanted to flat-out overthrow the existing order and replace it with a communist dictatorship (find what Jack Ruby had to say about this while he was in prison after JFK's assassination; also, what was all that violence and turmoil in streets in the 60's about? Why were student protestors waving around communist flags?). Senator McCarthy got in the way of these traitors, which is why he has been one of the most demonized men of the 20th Century after Hitler.

Quote:
And after a year without these sinister plotters, what would change?
The short answer: Lots!

I agree that there are a lot snake oil salesmen in the conspiracy subculture, and some are deliberately spreading disinformation, but looking over the events of the last 9 years, can anyone honestly deny that some of these conspiracy theorists were, at least in broad outline, right?

Quote:
They appeal to the patriotic yet preach only defeatism, building up the enemy as invincible and promising concentration camps for all who would resist.
One of my major gripes against the conspiracy subculture.

Quote:
They encourage the buying of gold, silver and rare coins...
Think about how much wealthier you'd be today if 5 years ago you had invested your savings in gold and silver coins instead of the stock market...

Quote:
Now he knows things that few others know. This makes him feel important.
True enough. But I occasionally see some of that in WN as well, and I see a lot of it in the survivalist subculture of which Mr. Saxon is a part. Many religious cults take advantage of this psychological vulnerability -- if you want to suck somebody into a cult, the first thing you tell them is that they're part of "the Elect." It's a universal trait, not restricted to the conspiracy subculture.

Quote:
The only way I can see one of them shooting anyone would be be if neighbors complained of a blustering, armed nut and the authorities had to be called. Then he would consider the police inquiry as his own Alamo and go down in a bloody heap of panicked paranoia.
Sounds like what happenened with Bill Cooper.

Quote:
Don't believe things you can't check. To believe without real evidence is stupidity. To believe in spite of evidence to the contrary is insanity.
I agree. If everyone did these things, they couldn't be lied to (or at least not very often). But that's not how most people are, and Nature probably didn't intend for most people to be that way. Most people are followers, and the people who can see things clearly are supposed to be their leaders. Natural leaders are supposed to lead, they're not supposed to hate and look down on the people they were born to lead. They're not supposed to say, "ah fuckit, you lemmings are too stupid, from now on I'm only going to look out for myself and the rest of you who didn't believe me can go fuck yourselves."

Being able to grasp that is what makes the difference between a William Pierce and a survivalist like Kurt Saxon. Too many survivalists sound like they've imbibed the libertarian poison and aren't able to conceive of themselves as anything other than individuals (though that isn't necessarily true of Saxon, who at least mentions being an asset to one's community).

Interesting that Mr. Saxon was at one time involved with the Church of Satan, which was kosher, and which essentially advocated libertarianism but with a bit of spookshow theatrics thrown in to spice things up.

I know this article was written many years ago and hopefully Mr. Saxon has reconsidered some of his views since he wrote it.
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Last edited by Igor Alexander; March 14th, 2009 at 10:58 AM.
 
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