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Old April 16th, 2020 #1
Rasen
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Default Soviet army of rapists in WWII

Two millions of German women in Third Reich had been raped by Soviet Red army invaders by 1945. Same crimes were committed in other states that fell under Soviet control. This kind of history was and is being ignored by USSR, USA and their successors like Putin's Russia. Time to reveal the truth.

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Relations between Russia and Germany have not been good since Vladimir Putin's nationalist sabre-rattling this summer, but they are about to get a whole lot worse.

A new film about to be released in Germany will force both countries to re-examine part of their recent history that each would much prefer to forget. Yet it is right that the ghastly truth should finally be acknowledged.

The movie, A Woman In Berlin, is based on the diary of the German journalist Marta Hillers and depicts the horror of the Red Army's capture of the capital of the Third Reich in April and May 1945.



A German girl walks past Soviet troops in a scene from A Woman In Berlin


Marta was one of two million German women who were raped by soldiers of the Red Army - in her case, as in so many others, several times over.

It was a feature of Russia's 'liberation' and occupation of eastern Germany at the end of World War II that is familiar enough to historians, but which neither country cares to acknowledge took place on anything like the scale it did.

For Russia, the episode besmirches the fine name of the Red Army that had fought so hard and suffered so much in its four-year campaign against the Wehrmacht.

The courage and resilience of the ordinary Russian in what they called the Great Patriotic War is incontestable, and for every five German soldiers killed in action in the whole of World War II, four died on the Eastern Front.

Yet the knowledge that the victorious Red Army committed mass rape across Prussia and eastern Germany as they closed in on Berlin degrades its reputation, which is unacceptable to many Russians today.

When the historian Antony Beevor wrote about it in his book Berlin: The Downfall, the Russian ambassador to London, Grigory Karasin, accused him of 'an act of blasphemy', saying: 'It is a slander against the people who saved the world from Nazism.'

Similarly, living Germans do not want the events that humiliated and violated them, their mothers and grandmothers to be held up to public examination, as this movie promises to do.
Stalin

Joseph Stalin: The Soviet leader explicitly condoned rape, according to one historian

For many German women, the memory was something they sublimated and never spoke about to their husbands returning from the front.

It was the great unmentionable fact of 1945, which is coming out not just in history books, but in front of a mass, international audience. Painful memories of gross sexual abuse are being dragged out and held up to the pitiless witness of the silver screen.

Furthermore for the Germans, there is also the added sense that had it not been for Operation Barbarossa, Hitler's invasion of the USSR, these crimes would never have been committed against German womanhood in the first place.

Three million German troops crossed the Soviet border in June 1941 in an attempt to extirpate the Russian state, and the Nazi commitment to

Total War produced atrocities so terrible that they were bound to be avenged once the Red Army reached German soil.

As so often in war, it was to be defenceless women, girls and even elderly ladies who were to pay in pain and outrage for the crimes of their male compatriots.

Many had abortions or were treated for the syphilis they caught. And as for the so-called Russenbabies - the children born out of rape - many were abandoned.

In his fine new book, World War Two: Behind Closed Doors, the historian Laurence Rees points out that although rape was officially a crime in the Red Army, in fact, Stalin explicitly condoned it as a method of rewarding the soldiers and terrorising German civilians.

Stalin said people should ' understand it if a soldier who has crossed thousands of kilometres through blood and fire and death has fun with a woman or takes some trifle'.

On another occasion, when told that Red Army soldiers sexually maltreated German refugees, he said: 'We lecture our soldiers too much; let them have their initiative.'

While Stalin condoned rape as an instrument of state military policy, his police chief Lavrenti Beria was a serial rapist.

An American diplomat, Beria's bodyguard and the Russian actress Tatiana Okunevskaya all bore witness of his methods of grabbing women off the street and shoving them into his limousine and then his bed.

'You are a long way from anywhere, so whether you scream or not does not matter,' Beria would tell the women when he got them back to his dacha. 'You are in my power now. So think about that and behave accordingly.'

More than 100 school-aged girls and young women were drugged and raped by the man who ran the NKVD, the feared forerunner to the KGB.

'All of which means, of course, that if reports of Red Army soldiers raping women in eastern Europe were sent to the NKVD in Moscow, they finally reached the desk of a rapist himself,' says Rees.

The rape of Berlin's female population - anyone between the ages of 13 and 70 was in danger - was cruelly vicious.

In one heart-breaking incident, a Berlin lawyer, who had somehow protected his Jewish wife from persecution throughout the Nazi period, was shot trying to protect her from rape by Red Army soldiers. As he lay dying of his wounds, he saw his wife being gang-raped.

'They do not speak a word of Russian, but that makes it easier,' one Red Army soldier wrote in a letter home in February 1945. 'You don't have to persuade them. You just point a revolver and tell them to lie down. Then you do your stuff and go away.'

It was unusual for Red Army soldiers to admit to rape in letters home, which is why this new German film is likely to shock Russian patriotic sensibilities.

Nor did the Germany's surrender calm the Russians' behaviour, at least in the short term.

'Weeks before you entered this house, its tenants were living in constant fright and fear,' the rich German publisher Hans-Dietrich Muller Grote wrote to President Truman about the place he stayed in during the Potsdam conference of July 1945.

'By day and by night, plundering Russian soldiers went in and out, raping my sisters before their own parents and children, beating up my old parents. All furniture, wardrobes and trunks were smashed with bayonets and rifle butts, their contents soiled and destroyed in an indescribable manner.'



Red Army troops in procession in Berlin, Germany. Their atrocities against the women were carried out in a sickeningly systematic manner (File Photo)

The Red Army's atrocities against women in Dresden in the spring of 1945, a city that had already suffered heavily from Allied bombing, were carried out in a sickeningly systematic manner.

'In the house next to ours, Soviet troops went in and pulled the women on to the street, had their mattresses pulled out and raped the women,' recalled one inhabitant, John Noble.

'The men had to watch, and then the men were shot. Right at the end of the street, a woman was tied to a wagon wheel and terribly misused.

'Of course, you had the feeling that you wanted to stop it, but there was no possibility to do that.' Women going to and from work past Red Army pickets were routinely raped.

The historian Chris Bellamy believes that although there are no surviving written records to prove it, 'the hideous spectre of multiple rape was not only condoned, but, we can be pretty sure, legally sanctioned by the political officers speaking for the Soviet government'.

Nor is it true that rape was mainly carried out by reserve units following behind the front-line troops.

The Russian war correspondent Vassily Grossman was embedded with the elite front-line Eighth Guards Army which committed rape, as did at least one of his own war correspondent colleagues.

As well as the estimated two million rapes in Germany, there were between 70,000 and 100,000 in Vienna and anywhere from 50,000 to 200,000 in Hungary, as well as thousands in Romania and Bulgaria, which had been pro-Nazi, but also in Poland, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia, which had not been.

Indeed, as Beevor points out, the Red Army even raped <cite>Russian </cite>women who had been liberated from concentration camps, emaciated and wearing their prison uniform.

Overall, however, Russian soldiers tended to prefer plumper and better-fed women, and one diarist recorded the satisfaction felt by some Berlin women that these tended to be the wives of Nazi Party functionaries.

Vodka played a role, of course, but the worst of the behaviour was fuelled by sheer hatred and aggression, as well as a cold-hearted sense of deterrence for the future.

'It's absolutely clear that if we don't really scare them now, there will be no way of avoiding another war in future,' one Red Army soldier wrote at the time.

In a recently published book by the Professor of Modern History at Cambridge, Richard Evans, a young Russian officer is quoted recalling how when his unit overtook a column of fleeing German refugees: 'Women, mothers and their children lie to the right and left along the route, and in front of each of them stands a raucous armada of men with their trousers down.

The women, who are bleeding or losing consciousness, get shoved to one side, and our men shoot the ones who try to save their children.'

A group of 'grinning' officers ensured that 'every soldier without exception would take part'.

Evans records: 'Rape was often accompanied by torture and mutilation and frequently ends in the victim being shot or bludgeoned to death. The raging violence was undiscriminating.'

The insistence on the men watching the rapes was deliberate policy, intended 'to underline the humiliation'.

Underlying all this foul inhumanity was the way the German Army and its allies had behaved during its invasion of Russia.

That was clearly not the only explanation - it doesn't explain why the Red Army raped Poles, Czechs and Yugoslavs and even Russian women, for example - for that one has to delve deep into the darkest recesses of the male psyche.

Yet the four years of life-and-death conflict did brutalise the Soviet peasant-soldier and taught him to behave like a beast against the women of his enemies once he was given the chance. The Soviet-German war lasted 1,418 days without respite, and for sheer horror there is nothing to equal it in the long and monstrous annals of human warfare.

'It eliminated pity, abandoned any constraint, mocked even a semblance of legality,' wrote its foremost historian Professor John Erickson. The Germans drew up plans to exterminate or deport no fewer than 50 million Slav untermensch (subhumans) and as soon as they had attacked they instituted procedures for achieving this. In the end, no fewer than 27 million citizens lost their lives.

The Geneva Conventions were ripped up, as it was stated that no German soldier would be prosecuted for any 'ideologically motivated' murder of civilians.

Hitler's Vernichtungskampf (war of annihilation) against the Slavs merged into his Rassenkampf (war of racial extermination) against the Jews and Communists to create a Continent-wide slaughter.

Behind the advancing Wehrmacht, which won victory after victory in the first six months, were a series of Einsatzgruppen (action squads), whose 'special task' it was to liquidate Jews, Communists, partisans, PoWs, the disabled and anyone else thought to be 'enemies of the Reich'.

In forests across eastern and southern Russia, Ukraine, Poland and the Baltic states, the populations of villages and towns were escorted to places of execution, ordered to dig their own shallow graves and then shot.

An estimated 1.5million innocent human beings are believed to have perished in this way. Yet, as Erickson puts it: 'Machine-guns and rudimentary gas vans could not cope with the demands imposed by mass extermination, prompting the search for a capacious gas chamber the like of Auschwitz.'

The 'scorched earth' policy adopted by the Wehrmacht led to millions more dying, and during the 900-day siege of Leningrad human flesh was semi-openly sold in the street. Small wonder that when 'Ivan' had his chance for revenge, he was going to take it in as gross and bestial a manner as possible.

The fact that the women of Germany were largely innocents, swept up in the horror rather than being responsible for it, meant nothing to an army that had lost 13.5 million casualties at the Germans' hands.

And what of the Allied advance in the West across Germany? It was not unknown for cases of rape to be reported, but they were considered a serious offence and punished accordingly.

The fact that today Germany is a peaceful democracy, indeed, in many ways a model country, can in large part be put down to the Red Army's monstrous invasion, but also to the ruthless bombing of its cities and towns by the British and U.S. air forces from 1941 to 1945.

The aggressive soul of Germany that had launched no fewer than five wars in the 75 years after 1864 was cut out by the experiences of World War II, and was thankfully not to reappear.

If made sensitively, this new film might be able to reconcile the two countries as they come to terms with the crimes committed in the first half of the Forties.

Equally, the capacity for reciprocated resentment is ever present. A Woman In Berlin is thus cinematic gunpowder. Yet neither side should hide from the harsh historical truths it tells, however unpalatable they may seem.
 
Old April 18th, 2020 #2
Rasen
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'They raped every German female from eight to 80'

Antony Beevor, author of the acclaimed new book about the fall of Berlin, on a massive war crime committed by the victorious Red Army.



Quote:
"Red Army soldiers don't believe in 'individual liaisons' with German women," wrote the playwright Zakhar Agranenko in his diary when serving as an officer of marine infantry in East Prussia. "Nine, ten, twelve men at a time - they rape them on a collective basis."

The Soviet armies advancing into East Prussia in January 1945, in huge, long columns, were an extraordinary mixture of modern and medieval: tank troops in padded black helmets, Cossack cavalrymen on shaggy mounts with loot strapped to the saddle, lend-lease Studebakers and Dodges towing light field guns, and then a second echelon in horse-drawn carts. The variety of character among the soldiers was almost as great as that of their military equipment. There were freebooters who drank and raped quite shamelessly, and there were idealistic, austere communists and members of the intelligentsia appalled by such behaviour.
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Beria and Stalin, back in Moscow, knew perfectly well what was going on from a number of detailed reports. One stated that "many Germans declare that all German women in East Prussia who stayed behind were raped by Red Army soldiers". Numerous examples of gang rape were given - "girls under 18 and old women included".

Marshal Rokossovsky issued order No 006 in an attempt to direct "the feelings of hatred at fighting the enemy on the battlefield." It appears to have had little effect. There were also a few arbitrary attempts to exert authority. The commander of one rifle division is said to have "personally shot a lieutenant who was lining up a group of his men before a German woman spreadeagled on the ground". But either officers were involved themselves, or the lack of discipline made it too dangerous to restore order over drunken soldiers armed with submachine guns.

Calls to avenge the Motherland, violated by the Wehrmacht's invasion, had given the idea that almost any cruelty would be allowed. Even many young women soldiers and medical staff in the Red Army did not appear to disapprove. "Our soldiers' behaviour towards Germans, particularly German women, is absolutely correct!" said a 21-year-old from Agranenko's reconnaissance detachment. A number seemed to find it amusing. Several German women recorded how Soviet servicewomen watched and laughed when they were raped. But some women were deeply shaken by what they witnessed in Germany. Natalya Gesse, a close friend of the scientist Andrei Sakharov, had observed the Red Army in action in 1945 as a Soviet war correspondent. "The Russian soldiers were raping every German female from eight to eighty," she recounted later. "It was an army of rapists."

Drink of every variety, including dangerous chemicals seized from laboratories and workshops, was a major factor in the violence. It seems as if Soviet soldiers needed alcoholic courage to attack a woman. But then, all too often, they drank too much and, unable to complete the act, used the bottle instead with appalling effect. A number of victims were mutilated obscenely.

The subject of the Red Army's mass rapes in Germany has been so repressed in Russia that even today veterans refuse to acknowledge what really happened. The handful prepared to speak openly, however, are totally unrepentant. "They all lifted their skirts for us and lay on the bed," said the leader of one tank company. He even went on to boast that "two million of our children were born" in Germany.

The capacity of Soviet officers to convince themselves that most of the victims were either happy with their fate, or at least accepted that it was their turn to suffer after what the Wehrmacht had done in Russia, is striking. "Our fellows were so sex-starved," a Soviet major told a British journalist at the time, "that they often raped old women of sixty, seventy or even eighty - much to these grandmothers' surprise, if not downright delight."

One can only scratch at the surface of the psychological contradictions. When gang-raped women in Königsberg begged their attackers afterwards to put them out of their misery, the Red Army men appear to have felt insulted. "Russian soldiers do not shoot women," they replied. "Only German soldiers do that." The Red Army had managed to convince itself that because it had assumed the moral mission to liberate Europe from fascism it could behave entirely as it liked, both personally and politically.

Domination and humiliation permeated most soldiers' treatment of women in East Prussia. The victims not only bore the brunt of revenge for Wehrmacht crimes, they also represented an atavistic target as old as war itself. Rape is the act of a conqueror, the feminist historian Susan Brownmiller observed, aimed at the "bodies of the defeated enemy's women" to emphasise his victory. Yet after the initial fury of January 1945 dissipated, the sadism became less marked. By the time the Red Army reached Berlin three months later, its soldiers tended to regard German women more as a casual right of conquest. The sense of domination certainly continued, but this was perhaps partly an indirect product of the humiliations which they themselves had suffered at the hands of their commanders and the Soviet authorities as a whole.

A number of other forces or influences were at work. Sexual freedom had been a subject for lively debate within Communist party circles during the 1920s, but during the following decade, Stalin ensured that Soviet society depicted itself as virtually asexual. This had nothing to do with genuine puritanism: it was because love and sex did not fit in with dogma designed to "deindividualise" the individual. Human urges and emotions had to be suppressed. Freud's work was banned, divorce and adultery were matters for strong party disapproval. Criminal sanctions against homosexuality were reintroduced. The new doctrine extended even to the complete suppression of sex education. In graphic art, the clothed outline of a woman's breasts was regarded as dangerously erotic. They had to be disguised under boiler suits. The regime clearly wanted any form of desire to be converted into love for the party and above all for Comrade Stalin.

Most ill-educated Red Army soldiers suffered from sexual ignorance and utterly unenlightened attitudes towards women. So the Soviet state's attempts to suppress the libido of its people created what one Russian writer described as a sort of "barracks eroticism" which was far more primitive and violent than "the most sordid foreign pornography". All this was combined with the dehumanising influence of modern propaganda and the atavistic, warring impulses of men marked by fear and suffering.

The novelist Vasily Grossman, a war correspondent attached to the invading Red Army, soon discovered that rape victims were not just Germans. Polish women also suffered. So did young Russian, Belorussian and Ukrainian women who had been sent back to Germany by the Wehrmacht for slave labour. "Liberated Soviet girls quite often complain that our soldiers rape them," he noted. "One girl said to me in tears: 'He was an old man, older than my father'."

The rape of Soviet women and girls seriously undermines Russian attempts to justify Red Army behaviour on the grounds of revenge for German brutality in the Soviet Union. On March 29 1945 the central committee of the Komsomol (the youth organisation of the Soviet Union) informed Stalin's associate Malenkov of a report from the 1st Ukrainian Front. "On the night of 24 February," General Tsygankov recorded in the first of many examples, "a group of 35 provisional lieutenants on a course and their battalion commander entered the women's dormitory in the village of Grutenberg and raped them."

In Berlin, many women were simply not prepared for the shock of Russian revenge, however much horror propaganda they had heard from Goebbels. Many reassured themselves that, although the danger must be great out in the countryside, mass rapes could hardly take place in the city in front of everybody.

In Dahlem, Soviet officers visited Sister Kunigunde, the mother superior of Haus Dahlem, a maternity clinic and orphanage. The officers and their men behaved impeccably. In fact, the officers even warned Sister Kunigunde about the second-line troops following on behind. Their prediction proved entirely accurate. Nuns, young girls, old women, pregnant women and mothers who had just given birth were all raped without pity.

Yet within a couple of days, a pattern emerged of soldiers flashing torches in the faces of women huddled in the bunkers to choose their victims. This process of selection, as opposed to the indiscriminate violence shown earlier, indicates a definite change. By this stage Soviet soldiers started to treat German women more as sexual spoils of war than as substitutes for the Wehrmacht on which to vent their rage.

Rape has often been defined by writers on the subject as an act of violence which has little to do with sex. But that is a definition from the victim's perspective. To understand the crime, one needs to see things from the perpetrator's point of view, especially in the later stages when unaggravated rape had succeeded the extreme onslaught of January and February.

Many women found themselves forced to "concede" to one soldier in the hope that he would protect them from others. Magda Wieland, a 24-year-old actress, was dragged from a cupboard in her apartment just off the Kurfürstendamm. A very young soldier from central Asia hauled her out. He was so excited at the prospect of a beautiful young blonde that he ejaculated prematurely. By sign language, she offered herself to him as a girlfriend if he would protect her from other Russian soldiers, but he went off to boast to his comrades and another soldier raped her. Ellen Goetz, a Jewish friend of Magda's, was also raped. When other Germans tried to explain to the Russians that she was Jewish and had been persecuted, they received the retort: "Frau ist Frau."

Women soon learned to disappear during the "hunting hours" of the evening. Young daughters were hidden in storage lofts for days on end. Mothers emerged into the street to fetch water only in the early morning when Soviet soldiers were sleeping off the alcohol from the night before. Sometimes the greatest danger came from one mother giving away the hiding place of other girls in a desperate bid to save her own daughter. Older Berliners still remember the screams every night. It was impossible not to hear them because all the windows had been blown in.

Estimates of rape victims from the city's two main hospitals ranged from 95,000 to 130,000. One doctor deduced that out of approximately 100,000 women raped in the city, some 10,000 died as a result, mostly from suicide. The death rate was thought to have been much higher among the 1.4 million estimated victims in East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia. Altogether at least two million German women are thought to have been raped, and a substantial minority, if not a majority, appear to have suffered multiple rape.

If anyone attempted to defend a woman against a Soviet attacker it was either a father trying to defend a daughter or a young son trying to protect his mother. "The 13-year old Dieter Sahl," neighbours wrote in a letter shortly after the event, "threw himself with flailing fists at a Russian who was raping his mother in front of him. He did not succeed in anything except getting himself shot."

After the second stage of women offering themselves to one soldier to save themselves from others, came the post-battle need to survive starvation. Susan Brownmiller noted "the murky line that divides wartime rape from wartime prostitution". Soon after the surrender in Berlin, Ursula von Kardorff found all sorts of women prostituting themselves for food or the alternative currency of cigarettes. Helke Sander, a German film-maker who researched the subject in great detail, wrote of "the grey area of direct force, blackmail, calculation and real affection".

The fourth stage was a strange form of cohabitation in which Red Army officers settled in with German "occupation wives". The Soviet authorities were appalled and enraged when a number of Red Army officers, intent on staying with their German lovers, deserted when it was time to return to the Motherland.

Even if the feminist definition of rape purely as an act of violence proves to be simplistic, there is no justification for male complacency. If anything, the events of 1945 reveal how thin the veneer of civilisation can be when there is little fear of retribution. It also suggests a much darker side to male sexuality than we might care to admit.
 
Old April 21st, 2020 #3
Alex Him
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I have not seen a single official document in this thread.
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Old April 21st, 2020 #4
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Originally Posted by Alex Him View Post
I have not seen a single official document in this thread.
As I get it from your messages, niggers are proper humans, Russia's Revolution of 1917 wasn't a Jewish coup, Solzhenitsyn is a traitor and hordes of bolsheviks were not rapists. It doesn't need any official document to declare you an idiot.
 
Old April 22nd, 2020 #5
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Originally Posted by Rasen View Post
As I get it from your messages, niggers are proper humans, Russia's Revolution of 1917 wasn't a Jewish coup, Solzhenitsyn is a traitor and hordes of bolsheviks were not rapists. It doesn't need any official document to declare you an idiot.
Do you think the idiot is the one who does not believe the unproven Western propaganda?
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Where should they dig the Very Deep Pit?
Piglet said that the best place would be somewhere where a Heffalump was, just before he fell into it, only about a foot farther on.
(c) Alan Alexander Miln
 
Old April 24th, 2020 #6
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Originally Posted by Alex Him View Post
Do you think the idiot is the one who does not believe the unproven Western propaganda?
Is information about inferiority of niggers the "Western propaganda"?
 
Old April 24th, 2020 #7
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Originally Posted by Rasen View Post
Is information about inferiority of niggers the "Western propaganda"?
It is a common belief in this forum.
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Where should they dig the Very Deep Pit?
Piglet said that the best place would be somewhere where a Heffalump was, just before he fell into it, only about a foot farther on.
(c) Alan Alexander Miln
 
Old April 24th, 2020 #8
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Originally Posted by Rasen View Post
As I get it from your messages, niggers are proper humans, Russia's Revolution of 1917 wasn't a Jewish coup, Solzhenitsyn is a traitor and hordes of bolsheviks were not rapists. It doesn't need any official document to declare you an idiot.
There is so much propaganda in the West protecting the WW2 reputation of the Russians. I read "A day in the life..." in High school, 60 years ago. I read "The Gulag..." volumes years later. But even today "Two Hundred Years Together" cannot be found in English. Amazon has a copy in Russian for $149 dollars.

Solzhenitsyn said it best, and all the blame cannot be put on the Jews. I would, perhaps naively, hope that at least the Jews are primarily the villians.

Mike
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Old April 24th, 2020 #9
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In 100 years of communism,communist killed 100 million people what mean that they in average number killed million people each year. In my area Soviets had descadents of Tatars in their rank and NS captured them and moved into NS ranks for fighting against Bolshevism,such Tatars were primarly rapists in Slavic villages than soliders.



See book by Lothrop Stoddard "Revolt Against Civilization":



About communism can not speak nobody who do not live in communist states,her smell we from Slavic ex-communist states feel still today. It is true that Slavic states are probably white but I am not sure would you from states who did not have communism live in this post-communist garbage with poverty,misery and generation conflict between people who was born in communism and youth who was born after communism who are conservatives what is reason of rising right partys over ex-communist states. Glory to Vladimir Putin who still celebrating Red Army what is unique case in Slavic ex-communist nations,I never saw that one ex-communist nations among Slavs celebrate Soviets who killed their whole intelligence,landowners end established red bourgeois class whose ancestors are loosing their private capital because of capitalist system who demands clear selection even we can speak about all flaws of this system but it is still better than direct democracy or dictature of the proleteriat what in practice mean high rate of corruption ruling by hierarchy structure where poor working class must serve to them with full of obedience in "states free apartments" who are in practice private property of communist chief. I worked in one ex-communist factory in state ownership with still existed communist mentality 48 hours on the week for 341 USD per month,that is liberal democracy in my ex-communist state,real paradise. All competent Slavs want to go in west because of poor wages what is reason why Ukraine want EU ,I know that this is not perfect but it is still better than be in ex-communist garbage state,white westerns have problem with spiritual communism as Christianity who is slow dying in cons of marxism what is fast dying.

Last edited by Fico; April 24th, 2020 at 02:52 PM.
 
Old April 24th, 2020 #10
Rasen
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Originally Posted by Alex Him View Post
It is a common belief in this forum.
Okay, negrophile. Let's go ahead.

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Originally Posted by Mike in Denver View Post
There is so much propaganda in the West protecting the WW2 reputation of the Russians. I read "A day in the life..." in High school, 60 years ago. I read "The Gulag..." volumes years later. But even today "Two Hundred Years Together" cannot be found in English. Amazon has a copy in Russian for $149 dollars.

Solzhenitsyn said it best, and all the blame cannot be put on the Jews. I would, perhaps naively, hope that at least the Jews are primarily the villians.

Mike
I can say there is a minor difference in Soviet and modern Western "propaganda", the major contradiction is about downplaying the role USSR in the military victory over "fascism", bur everything else (racial equality, "Russian revolution", innocence of anti-Hitler coalition) is the same. The bolshevik jerk Alex Him could say there were too many Soviet nations (including wild Uzbeks, Tajiks, Turkmens) conquering Germany, but he prefers to follow official Soviet ideology about innocence of the "Soviet liberators".

Last edited by Rasen; April 30th, 2020 at 01:33 AM.
 
Old April 24th, 2020 #11
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It'd be a serious mistake to say that Soviet Russia only raped the captured German women, elders and girls, it actually happened in every East European state they seized, in spite on official decrees of Stalin.

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‘Silenced Shame’: Hungarian Women Remember Wartime Rapes


Director Fruzsina Skrabski interviews Mrs. Miklos Ujj in the film”Silenced Shame.” (Photo courtesy of Fruzsina Skrabski, Budapest)

BUDAPEST — Last month when a Polish art student installed a life-sized sculpture in a Gdansk public square of a Red Army soldier raping a pregnant woman, his activism provoked a storm of angry reactions from Russians and Poles. Critics claimed that the image of a serviceman holding a gun to a woman’s head dishonored the memory of Soviet troops and was an inappropriate commemoration of victims of wartime rape.

Both the shame and the denial voiced during the Gdansk incident are typical responses to any reminder of the mass rapes perpetrated by Red Army troops during World War II, says Hungarian filmmaker Fruzsina Skrabski, whose documentary “Silenced Shame” was shown earlier this month at the 13th Hungarian Film Festival in Los Angeles.

Skrabski’s film, financed with a grant from the Hungarian government, investigates the atrocities committed by Red Army soldiers during their takeover of Hungary in 1944 and 1945 and the tyranny of silence that followed under Communism.

I met with Skrabski and the film’s producer, Zoltan Janovics, who helped translate the conversation, in a café in Budapest, to talk about the film, which has been aired on Hungarian television and shown in public theaters here.

Skrabski filmed survivors of wartime rape, women in their 80s and 90s, as they spoke publicly about their traumas for the first time in 65 years. “These women who gave interviews are heroes,” she tells me. “They don’t want young women to forget” what happened to them.

One of the film’s survivors, Magdolna Prosz, recounts in horrifying detail her attempt to resist four soldiers by clinging to her older sister, and then describes her sister’s slow death from a shot in the head following the struggle. Another witness, Mrs. Miklos Ujj, tells how women “were made to look ugly” as a form of protection: “We didn’t wash and we were covered in fleas . . . My mother made a hump for my back and I went around like that.”

According to Skrabski, it’s possible that as many as 800,000 Hungarian women were raped, and the violence included gang rape and sexual torture. Pregnancy resulting from rape was so widespread that the government suspended its ban on abortions for several months during 1945, offering abortion and STD treatment services free of charge.

Skrabski believes that “Hungarian men were also victims.” Because they were ashamed that they hadn’t been able to protect the women, she says, “[the rapes] were secrets for the men, too.”

Her documentary explores how the physical and emotional suffering of the rape victims was compounded by layers of shame–their own and that of their families–as well as by politically imposed psychological repression. Under post-war Communism, not only was it forbidden for Hungarians to criticize the Red Army, but they were required to celebrate the Soviets as their anti-fascist liberators. The women who had been raped were systemically silenced. In the film, Mrs. Lajos Vincze remembers: “You never brought the subject up—even indirectly. Forget it—that was the word. We tried to forget it.”

In a series of riveting film segments, Skrabski challenges former Soviet soldiers to recall their wartime experiences. Sitting in full regalia in the Hall of Glory of the Museum of the Great Patriotic War in Moscow, the Red Army veterans deny mass rape, argue that the women infected the serviceman with STDs (not the other way around), and claim that sex was mostly consensual.

At one point, frustrated by Skrabski’s persistent questioning, a veteran reacts defensively, linking the suggestion of war crimes to a central tragedy of war, the dehumanizing of soldiers: “The hardest thing to do is to kill a person. Do you understand? You have to kill people! . . . That is the greatest mental trauma of war.”

Experts featured in “Silenced Shame” provide a more psychologically complex analysis of wartime rape. Historian Krisztian Ungvary states that “[Rape] is about power, and a soldier does it to compensate for the horrors he has been forced to suffer as an instrument of war.” A Russian scholar views rape as part of the spoils of war, “a kind of subconscious reinforcement of victory.” When Janovics, the film’s producer, echoes this, telling me “[Wartime rape] is not sexual; it’s a way to show power,” Skrabski adds: “I think it is the same way in other wars.”

But according to The International Campaign to Stop Rape & Gender Violence in Conflict, “not all wartime sexual violence can be explained or understood in the same way.” The purpose of rape during war, why it happens and how it functions, can differ depending on the circumstances of the conflict. Gender violence can be employed as an intentional “tactical weapon” instituted by leaders, rather than occur as a random or deviant by-product of war. Rape, as a weapon, functions as a form of terroristic social control that undermines familial and societal ties and, when pregnancy results, contributes to ethnic cleansing.

The Campaign asserts that systematic, tactical rape is used today in conflicts in the Democratic Republic of Congo, Syria, and Burma, among others.

Regarding the impact of her film, Skrabski acknowledges that wartime rape is not unique to the Red Army; that in fact, it goes back far into history and continues today. “It is always happening,” she says, which is why she hopes the film will receive international attention. But by providing a public space for particular women to name the specific horrors of their past, she believes that “Silenced Shame” functions as an historical record and an act of remembrance.

Near the end of the film, after disclosing a harrowing trauma, survivor Gabi Kali speaks with dignity, though her pain is palpable. “I have forgiveness in my heart,” she says. “But I can never forget.” Her public remembering does not change her personal history, but it frees her from long years of censure and isolation.

Sharing intimate knowledge of the brutality experienced by these women becomes an act of solidarity for the viewer. And for those who understand that wartime rape is not restricted to the past, but is perpetrated in conflicts today at a rate of one per minute, this shared remembering becomes an extended vigil for victims worldwide.
 
Old May 2nd, 2020 #12
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Where should they dig the Very Deep Pit?
Piglet said that the best place would be somewhere where a Heffalump was, just before he fell into it, only about a foot farther on.
(c) Alan Alexander Miln
 
Old May 2nd, 2020 #13
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To prevent this threat conversion into typical communist propaganda bullshit about "Hitler and his cannibal"...

Quote:
How German Women Suffered Largest Mass Rape in History by Soviets

By Daily Archives

Between the months of April and May, the German capital Berlin saw more than 100,000 rape cases according to hospital reports, while East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia saw more than 1.4 million rape cases.


http://www.renegadetribune.com/wp-co...of-germans.jpg

Between the months of January and August of 1945, Germany saw the largest incident of mass rape known in history, where an estimated two million German women were raped by the Soviet Red Army soldiers, as written by Walter Zapotoczny Jr. in his book, ‘Beyond Duty: The Reason Some Soldiers Commit Atrocities’.

Hospital reports also stated that abortion operations were being carried out daily across all German hospitals.

Natalya Gesse, who was a Soviet war correspondent at the time, said that the Soviets didn’t care about the ages of their victims. “The Russian soldiers were raping every German female from eight to eighty. It was an army of rapists,” she said.

This caused the deaths of no less than 200,000 girls and women due to the spread of diseases, especially that many eyewitnesses recounted victims being raped as much as 70 times in that period.


http://www.renegadetribune.com/wp-co...by-soviets.jpg

Red Army soldiers would mass rape German women as a kind of revenge against their enemy: The German army. They felt that it was their earned right to do so as the German army had ‘violated’ their motherland by invading it. In addition to not being in contact with women for long periods causing their animal instinct to be heightened.

“Our fellows were so sex-starved,” a Soviet major told a British journalist at the time, “that they often raped old women of sixty, seventy or even eighty – much to these grandmothers’ surprise, if not downright delight.”


http://www.renegadetribune.com/wp-co...viets-1945.jpg

In his book, Zapotoczny said that even female Russian soldiers did not disapprove of the rapes, some finding it amusing.

In 1948, rape cases decreased vastly after Soviet troops were ordered back to their camps in Russia and left residential areas in Germany.
 
Old May 3rd, 2020 #14
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Where should they dig the Very Deep Pit?
Piglet said that the best place would be somewhere where a Heffalump was, just before he fell into it, only about a foot farther on.
(c) Alan Alexander Miln
 
Old May 3rd, 2020 #15
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To prevent this topic from turning into typical unproven rubbish, I'm going to saturate it with documents.

I am pleased to inform you that the Russian Ministry of Defense has declassified and published on its website documents related to the capture of Berlin.







"По прямому проводу кодом

Верховному Главнокомандующему
Маршалу Советского Союза
Товарищу Сталину

Боевое донесение №00655. Штаб 1 Белорусского фронта 16:30 30.04.45

Противник оказывает упорное сопротивление нашим войскам, наступающим в городе Берлин.
Каждая улица, квартал, отдельный дом, квартира, комната, подвал упорно обороняются противником и превращены им в опорные пункты и очаги обороны.
Особенно упорное сопротивление противник оказывал в районе Рейхстага. На лестницах и в помещениях главного здания Рейхстага, борьба переходила в неоднократные рукопашные схватки.
Район Рейхстага обороняли отборные части СС. Для усиления обороны этого района противник в ночь на 28.04.45 выбросил на парашютах батальон морской пехоты.
Продолжая наступление и ломая сопротивление противника части 3 ударной армии заняли главное здание Рейхстага и в 14:25 30.04.45 подняли на нём Советский флаг.

В боях за район Рейхстага и его главное здание отличились войска 3 ударной армии генерал-полковника Кузнецова, командира 79 стрелкового корпуса генерал-майора Переверткина, командира 171 стрелковой дивизии полковника Негода и командира 150 стрелковой дивизии генерал-майора Шатилова.
Наступление в городе Берлин продолжается, войска фронта продолжают выполнять поставленную вами задачу.

Командующий войсками 1 Белорусского фронта
Маршал Советского Союза
Георгий Жуков

Член военного совета
1 Белорусского фронта
Генерал-лейтенант
Телегин

Начальник штаба
Генерал-полковник
Малинин"




"By direct wire with code

To Supreme Commander
Marshal of the Soviet Union
Comrade Stalin

Battle report #00655. Headquarters of the 1 Belorussian Front 16:30 30.04.45

The enemy is stubbornly resisting our troops advancing in the city of Berlin.
Each street, block, separate house, apartment, room, basement is stubbornly defended by the enemy and turned into strong points and centers of defense.
The enemy put up particularly stubborn resistance in the Reichstag area. On the stairs and in the premises of the main building of the Reichstag, the struggle turned into repeated hand-to-hand fights.
The Reichstag area was defended by selected parts of the SS. To strengthen the defense of this area, on the night of 04/28/45 the enemy threw a battalion of marines by parachute.
Continuing the offensive and breaking the enemy's resistance, units of the 3rd army occupied the main building of the Reichstag and at 14:25 30.04.45 raised the Soviet flag on it.

In the battles for the Reichstag district and its main building, the troops of the 3rd army of Colonel General Kuznetsov, the 79th Infantry Corps of Major General Perevertkin, the 171th Infantry Division of Colonel Negoda and the 150th Infantry Division of Major General Shatilov distinguished themselves.
The offensive in the city of Berlin continues, the troops of the front continue to fulfill your task.

Commander of the 1st Belorussian Front
Marshal of the Soviet Union
Georgy Zhukov

Member of the military council of the 1st Belorussian Front
Lieutenant general
Telegin

Chief of staff
Colonel General
Malinin"








This is a Russian translation of the order of the German Defense Commander of Berlin.

Fortunately there is english translation - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_Weidling

"On 30 April 1945, the Führer committed suicide, and thus abandoned those who had sworn loyalty to him. According to the Führer's order, you German soldiers would have had to go on fighting for Berlin despite the fact that our ammunition has run out and despite the general situation which makes our further resistance meaningless. I order the immediate cessation of resistance. Every hour you keep on fighting prolongs the suffering of the civilians in Berlin and of our wounded. Together with the commander-in-chief of the Soviet forces I order you to stop fighting immediately.

WEIDLING, General of Artillery, former District Commandant in the defence of Berlin."
__________________
Where should they dig the Very Deep Pit?
Piglet said that the best place would be somewhere where a Heffalump was, just before he fell into it, only about a foot farther on.
(c) Alan Alexander Miln
 
Old May 3rd, 2020 #16
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__________________
Where should they dig the Very Deep Pit?
Piglet said that the best place would be somewhere where a Heffalump was, just before he fell into it, only about a foot farther on.
(c) Alan Alexander Miln
 
Old May 3rd, 2020 #17
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"По проводу

Москва
Верховному Главнокомандующему
Маршалу Советского Союза
Товарищу Сталину

№00145

1. Войска фронта сегодня 2 мая 1945 года, после девятидневных уличных боев, полностью овладели юго-западными и центральными районами города Берлин (в пределах установленной для фронта разграничительной линии) и совместно с войсками 1 Белорусского фронта овладели городом Берлин.
При овладении городом Берлин, островом Ванизе, а также ликвидации разрозненных в лесах остатков разгромленной южнее города Берлин группировки противника за день 02.05.45 захвачено 34000 пленных, солдат и офицеров противника.
Среди пленных офицеров командир 286 пехотной дивизии генерал майор фон Роден.
Захвачено 37 танков, свыше 150 орудий и большое количество другого вооружения и военного имущества.

2. 3 гвардейская танковая и 28 армии овладев юго-западной частью города Берлин - оставались в занимаемых районах города.


13 армия овладела городами Нимегк и Косвиг (на реке Эльбе). Положение остальных частей армии без изменений.

4 гвардейская танковая армия - (10 гвардейский добровольческий танковый корпус с 350 стрелковой дивизией) полностью овладела островом Ванизе.
6 гвардейский механизированный корпус - передав в городе Бранденбург боевой участок частям 1 Белорусского фронта к исходу дня вышел в район Фихтенвальде.
5 гвардейский механизированный корпус - в прежних районах.

3 гвардейская армия - закончив бои по уничтожению группировки противника в районе Шперенберг-Луккенвальде на марше в новый район сосредоточения.

5 гвардейская армия - вела бои с танками и пехотой противника в районах южнее города Риза и южнее города Ортранд. Атаки противника отбиты.

Положение на участках 2 Польской, 52, 31, 21 и 59 армий - без изменений.

3. Военно-Воздушные Силы фронта из-за нелётной погоды (дождь) боевой работы не вели.
Авиация противника не действовала.


[Командующий войсками 1 Украинского фронта
Маршал Советского Союза
Иван] Конев

[Член военного совета
1 Украинского фронта
Генерал-майор]
Крайнюков

[Начальник штаба
Генерал армии]
Петров

03.05.45
0 часов 10 минут"



"By wire

Moscow
To Supreme Commander
Marshal of the Soviet Union
Comrade Stalin

#00145

1. Today, on May 2, 1945, the front troops, after nine days of street fighting, completely took control of the southwestern and central areas of the city of Berlin (within the boundary line established for the front) and, together with the troops of the 1st Belarusian Front, took control of the city of Berlin.
During the seizure of the city of Berlin and the island of Wannsee, as well as the elimination of the scattered in the forests of the remnants of the enemy group, defeated at south of the city of Berlin, 34,000 prisoners, (soldiers and officers) were captured during the day 02.05.45.
Among the captured officers, the commander of the 286th infantry division, Major General von Roden.
Seized 37 tanks, over 150 guns and a large number of other weapons and military equipment.

2. The 3rd Guards Tank and 28th Armies, having captured the southwestern part of the city of Berlin, remained in the occupied areas of the city.


13th army captured the cities of Niemegk and Coswig (on the Elbe River). The position of the rest of the army is unchanged.
The 4th Guards Tank Army (the 10th Guards Volunteer Tank Corps with the 350th Rifle Division) completely took control of the island of Wannsee.
The 6th Guards Mechanized Corps, having transferred the combat area in Brandenburg to units of the 1st Belorussian Front, reached the Fichtenwalde area by the end of the day.
The 5th Guards Mechanized Corps remained in the same areas.

The 3rd Guards Army, having finished the battles to destroy the enemy group in the area of Sperenberg-Luckenwalde, is now on a march to a new concentration area.

The 5th Guards Army fought with tanks and enemy infantry in areas south of the city of Riesa and south of the city of Ortrand. Enemy attacks are repulsed.

The situation in the sections of the 2nd Polish, 52, 31, 21 and 59 armies is unchanged.

3. The Air Force of the front did not conduct combat work due to bad weather (rain).
The Air Force of enemy didn't acted.


[Commander of the 1st Ukrainian Front
Marshal of the Soviet Union
Ivan] Konev

[Member of the military council of the 1st Ukrainian front
Major General]
Krainyukov

[Chief of staff
Army General]
Petrov


05/03/45
0 hours 10 minutes"
__________________
Where should they dig the Very Deep Pit?
Piglet said that the best place would be somewhere where a Heffalump was, just before he fell into it, only about a foot farther on.
(c) Alan Alexander Miln
 
Old May 4th, 2020 #18
Rasen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Him View Post
To prevent this topic from turning into typical unproven rubbish, I'm going to saturate it with documents.

I am pleased to inform you that the Russian Ministry of Defense has declassified and published on its website documents related to the capture of Berlin.
Very wise of you to flood this thread about well-known Soviet rape crimes by offtopic military reports about "victory over fascism". It seem the truth is harmful for you as for a son of rapists.

It's widely known that your army committed such sub-human crimes entering even friendly Yugoslavia:

Quote:
According to Yugoslav politician Milovan Djilas, at least 121 cases of rape were documented, 111 of which also involved murder. A total of 1,204 cases of looting with assault were also documented. Djilas described these figures as, "hardly insignificant if it is borne in mind that the Red Army crossed only the northeastern corner of Yugoslavia". This caused concern to the Yugoslav communist partisans, who feared that stories of crimes committed by their Soviet allies would weaken their standing among the population.

Djilas writes that in response, Yugoslav partisan leader Joseph Broz Tito summoned the chief of the Soviet military mission, General Korneev, and formally protested. Despite having been invited "as a comrade", Korneev exploded at them for offering "such insinuations" against the Red Army. Djilas, who was present at the meeting, spoke up and explained the British Army had never engaged in "such excesses" while liberating the other regions of Yugoslavia. General Korneev responded by screaming, "I protest most sharply at this insult given to the Red Army by comparing it with the armies of capitalist countries."

According to Djilas, the Soviet refusal to address protests against Red Army war crimes in Yugoslavia enraged Tito's Government and it was a contributing factor in Yugoslavia's subsequent exit from the Soviet Bloc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet...mes#Yugoslavia
 
Old May 4th, 2020 #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasen View Post
Very wise of you to flood this thread about well-known Soviet rape crimes by offtopic military reports about "victory over fascism". It seem the truth is harmful for you as for a son of rapists.
"Well-known" does not mean "well-proven."

It is also "well-known" that - https://vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=...postcount=6683 - 95% of Jews in the central government of the Bolsheviks.

However, no one has yet been able to cite evidence of this - https://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=557045

So tell us where these two million rape case files are stored.

What are the names of the investigators who investigated them?



Quote:
It's widely known that your army committed such sub-human crimes entering even friendly Yugoslavia:
And where are the documents about these cases?





__________________
Where should they dig the Very Deep Pit?
Piglet said that the best place would be somewhere where a Heffalump was, just before he fell into it, only about a foot farther on.
(c) Alan Alexander Miln
 
Old May 6th, 2020 #20
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"Шифром

ВОЕННЫМ СОВЕТАМ АРМИЙ 1 БЕЛОРУССКОГО ФРОНТА
НАЧАЛЬНИКУ ТЫЛА ФРОНТА
НАЧАЛЬНИКУ ОТДЕЛА КОМЕНДАНТСКОЙ СЛУЖБЫ ФРОНТА

Для снабжения продовольствием населения города Берлина, на случай если оно окажется не обеспеченным продовольствием, Военный Совет фронта обязывает Военные Советы армий и Военных Комендантов:

1. Произвести организованный учет наличия продовольствия, зерна, скота и картофеля у немецкого населения Германии как до реки Одер, так и на вновь занятой территории западнее реки Одер. Исчислить для личного потребления крестьян по норме на одного человека в месяц: зерна хлебного 12 килограмм, картофеля 10 килограмм и на одну лошадь в месяц зернового фуража 45 килограмм.
Убой скота немецкому населению временно запретить. Все излишки продовольствия, зерна, скота и картофеля взять на особый учет, оформить сохранными расписками владельцев и сдать под наблюдение военных комендантов.

2. Запретить самовольное изъятие продовольствия войсковыми частями у немецкого населения.
Заготовку продовольствия производить исключительно по нарядам заготовительных органов армий и фронта, из числа излишков учтенных у немецкого населения.
Категорически запретить расходование продовольствия в войсках сверх установленных норм довольствия.

3. При занятии города Берлина и пригородов и выявлении трофейного продовольствия как на военных складах, так и на базах коммерческих организаций устанавливать строжайшую охрану продовольственных складов не допуская растаскивания продуктов.

4. Отпускать для снабжения населения города Берлина в распоряжение Военного коменданта необходимое количество продовольствия по его заявке из наличия взятого трофейного продовольствия или из учтенных


излишков у сельского населения.

5. Обеспечение продовольствием населения города Берлина в первую очередь рабочих, мелких служащих и их семей, неимеющих своего сельского хозяйства и приусадебной огородной земли, производить по нормам существовавшим при немцах, но не выше следующих норм в сутки на одного человека в граммах:

Для граждан СССР, граждан и военнопленных союзных государств:
(вне лагерей)
Хлеб - 400 грамм
Мясо - 50/75 грамм
Жиры -
Картофель - 500 грамм
Соль - 20 грамм
Сахар - 20 грамм
Кофе - 4 грамма

Для немецкого населения -

Для взрослых:
Хлеб - 200 грамм
Мясо - 25 грамм
Жиры -
Картофель - 400 грамм
Соль - 10 грамм
Сахар - 10 грамм
Кофе - 2 грамма

Для детей:
Хлеб - 150 грамм
Мясо - 25 грамм
Жиры - 5 грамм
Картофель - 200 грамм
Соль - 10 грамм
Сахар - 10 грамм
Кофе - 1 грамма

Снабжение собранных в лагеря и сборно-пересыльные пункты освобожденных граждан СССР производить по норме №4, граждан и военнопленных союзных государств по норме №2 приказа Народного Комиссариата Обороны №312 - 41 года.

6. В случае, если наличие взятого трофейного продовольствия и учтенных излишков у сельского населения западнее реки Одер окажется недостаточным для нормального снабжения населения города Берлина, выделить из армейских и фронтовых запасов страховочный фонд продовольствия в следующем количестве:

а) Муки и ржи 4500 тонн из 61 армии и 1500 тонн из фронтовых складов;
б) Скота в убойном весе из 3 ударной армии - 150 тонн, 5 ударной армии - 150 тонн, 61 армии - 200 тонн, 33 армии - 100 тонн, 1 и 2 гвардейской танковой армий по 75 тонн и ПК-2 - 500 тонн;
в) Жиров - свинины из 1 гвардейской танковой армии - 25 тонн, из фронтовых складов - 50 тонн;
г) Картофеля из 3 ударной, 5 ударной, 8 гвардейской, 47, 69, 33, 61 армий по 1500 тонн и 1 и 2 гвардейских танковых армий по 750 тонн;


д) Соли из фронтовых складов - 550 тонн;
е) Сахару из фронтовых складов - 500 тонн;
ж) Кофе из фронтовых складов - 65 тонн.

Доставку выделяемого продовольствия в распоряжение Военного Коменданта города Берлин произвести по железной дороге или автотранспортом по особому распоряжению Начальника Тыла фронта.
Командующему 5 Ударной армии, по занятии города Берлина, часть своих транспортных средств обратить на вывоз из других армий перечисленного выше продовольствия для питания населения города Берлина.
Время и порядок выдачи продовольствия населению города Берлина определить особо приказом Начальника гарнизона города Берлин.

7. Военным Советам армий и Военным Комендантам в 3-х дневный срок после получения настоящей директивы донести через Начальника Тыла фронта какое количество продовольствия, зерна и картофеля они дополнительно выделяют из излишков сверх обеспеченности по 01.08.45 и в каких пунктах эти запасы хранятся.


[Командующий войсками 1 Белорусского фронта
Маршал Советского Союза]
Георгий Жуков

[Член военного совета
1 Белорусского фронта
Генерал-лейтенант]
Телегин

[Начальник Тыла
1 Белорусского фронта
Генерал-лейтенант интендантской службы]
Антипенко

23 апреля 1945 года"




"With cipher

TO THE MILITARY COUNCILS OF ARMIES OF THE 1st BELARUSIAN FRONT
TO CHIEF OF LOGISTICS OF THE FRONT
TO CHIEF OF COMMANDANT'S SERVICE OF THE FRONT

In order to supply food to the population of the city of Berlin (in case it is not provided with food) the Military Council of the Front obliges the Military Councils of Armies and Military Commandants:

1. To carry out an organized accounting of the availability of food, grain, livestock and potatoes from the German population of Germany both to the Oder River and to the newly occupied territory west of the Oder River. To allocate for personal consumption of peasants at a rate of one person per month: grain of bread - 12 kilograms, potatoes - 10 kilograms and one horse per month of grain feed - 45 kilograms.
Slaughter of cattle to the German population is temporarily prohibited. All surplus food, grain, livestock and potatoes to take on special accounting, issue safe receipts of the owners and put under the supervision of military commandants.

2. To prohibit the unauthorized seizure of food by military units from the German population.
Procurement of food is carried out exclusively according to the orders of the procurement bodies of the armies and the front, from among the surpluses taken into account from the German population.
Strictly prohibit the expenditure of food in the troops in excess of established standards of allowance.

3. When occupying the city of Berlin and its suburbs and identifying trophy food, both in military warehouses and at the bases of commercial organizations, establish the strictest protection of food warehouses without allowing food to be stolen.

4. To release the necessary amount of food for the supply of the population of the city of Berlin at the disposal of the Military commandant at his request from the availability of trophy food or from the recorded


surplus of food of the rural population.

5. The provision of food to the population of the city of Berlin, primarily workers, small-scale employees and their families, who do not have their own agriculture and garden land, should be carried out according to the norms that existed under the Germans, but not higher than the following norms per day per person in grams:

For citizens of the USSR, citizens and prisoners of war of the union states:
(outside the camps)

Bread - 400 grams
Meat - 50/75 grams
Fats -
Potato - 500 grams
Salt - 20 grams
Sugar - 20 grams
Coffee - 4 grams

For the German population -

For adults:
Bread - 200 grams
Meat - 25 grams
Fats -
Potato - 400 grams
Salt - 10 grams
Sugar - 10 grams
Coffee - 2 grams

For children:
Bread - 150 grams
Meat - 25 grams
Fats - 5 grams
Potato - 200 grams
Salt - 10 grams
Sugar - 10 grams
Coffee - 1 gram

Food supply to the released citizens of the USSR collected in camps and collection and transfer points is made according to the norm #4; citizens and prisoners of war of the Union States according to the norm #2 of the order of the People's Commissariat of Defense #312 of 1941.

6. If the availability of trophy food and accounted for surplus from the rural population west of the Oder River is not sufficient for the normal supply of the population of the city of Berlin, allocate a food safety fund from the army and front stocks in the following amounts:

a) Flour and rye 4,500 tons from the 61st Army and 1,500 tons from the front warehouses;
b) Cattle in slaughter weight from the 3rd army - 150 tons, the 5th army - 150 tons, the 61st army - 200 tons, the 33rd army - 100 tons, the 1st and 2nd guards tank armies of 75 tons and PK-2 - 500 tons;
c) Fat from pork from the 1st Guards Tank Army - 25 tons, from the front warehouses - 50 tons;
d) Potatoes from the 3rd, 5th, 8th Guards, 47th, 69th, 33rd, 61st Armies of 1,500 tons each and the 1st and 2nd Guards Tank Armies of 750 tons;


e) Salts from the front warehouses - 550 tons;
f) Sugar from the front warehouses - 500 tons;
g) Coffee from the front warehouses - 65 tons.

Deliver food to the disposal of the Military Commandant of the city of Berlin by rail or road by special order of the chief of logistics of the front.
The commander of the 5th army, in the occupation of the city of Berlin, should use part of his vehicles to export the above food from other armies to feed the population of the city of Berlin.
The time and procedure for distributing food to the population of the city of Berlin shall be determined by special order of the Chief of the Garrison of the city of Berlin.

7. Military Councils of armies and Military Commandants within 3 days after receiving this Directive to inform through the chief of logistics of the front: what amount of food, grain and potatoes they additionally allocate from the surplus over amount on 01.08.45 and at what places these stocks are stored.


[Commander of the 1st Belorussian Front
Marshal of the Soviet Union]
Georgy Zhukov

[Member of the military council of the 1st Belorussian Front
Lieutenant general]
Telegin

[The chief of logistics of the 1st Belorussian Front
Lieutenant General of the Quartermaster Service]
Antipenko

April 23, 1945"
__________________
Where should they dig the Very Deep Pit?
Piglet said that the best place would be somewhere where a Heffalump was, just before he fell into it, only about a foot farther on.
(c) Alan Alexander Miln
 
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