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Old December 15th, 2009 #41
Alex Linder
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Originally Posted by Hadding View Post
That's precisely my point. Evola has nothing to do with N-S. I didn't see his magazine. I read his ideological declaration on Overthrow back around 2003 and I noticed that he danced around the question of race, especially in regard to Jews.
No, he's anti-jew and it's real. That's my best judgment. Not just from reading him, but from meeting him and listening to him talk - and believe me, you don't talk much when you're around him. He is in his own world and other living creatures figure very peripherally. I am good at sensing people who are out for money or status, and he is not one of these in the sense we in the movement are well familiar with.

He's a gray area. Parts of him are horrible, parts of him are solid. I wish White were all white but he's not. What I saw in him is a little something of what our cause needs to win. Very similar to Elisha Strom who also had a soupcon of sterling, but alloyed with the temperament of a coachwhip.

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I can't say that Kevin doesn't have character flaws -- I was quite annoyed with him for standing by Gliebe as long as he did -- but of the things that you mention, the one has nothing to do with the other. Whatever the content of his fantasy life may have been, he seemed to have it under control when I knew him.
It is telling that no one accused him of physically molesting anyone. I would assume that's why he pretty much got off.

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Yes, as irrational as that COINTELPRO broadcast was, I would say he was frantic.
I barely remember it except, geez Kev, do you really have to atom-bomb me? Can't you just call me a useless sihthead? Do you really have to try to kill me off with the ultimate sanction? I felt sorry for him, in a way. There has to be a better way to fight than that, and him with all those brains and can't figure it out.

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I was aware that Bill White was talking to Fred Streed. Fred thought he was a sincere convert to our worldview, but I have never been entirely convinced of that. Bill White is a good candidate for the Ideology of the Month Club, because he seems to have tried most of them. Was he ever really sincere about any of them, or is each one just a new vehicle for his attention-seeking?
No, I believe his evolution was real. People who are fake or looking to sell out don't act the way he did. At every stage of his evolution he took real risks, and was involved in real activity - none of it was just virtual, safe and indoors.

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What I recall hearing at the time is that you wanted to do media for the NA and Strom lobbied against this, evidently because he wanted to keep all the reins in his own hands.
Well, that makes it sounds like I was pursuing it, but I really wasn't. I was doing VNN, which I had started as an idea after Pierce said he didn't want to hire anyone to do the magazine right then. When he finally did, years later, Kevin came back to do it. No skin off my balls, I love the internet, and after 10 years of trade publishing was heartily sick of the print process. Not to mention I don't have the graphics skills the Stroms do, and those figure heavily in print. But, when Pierce died and it looked like reasonble people might be going to take over NA, I was certainly interested in helping. Not displacing Strom, but working with people who could at least simulate intelligence and rationality. I had no urge to run all their media or do anything but fit in and help pick the best course for everybody.

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I personally didn't think it was good for Kevin to have that monopoly. Even the radio show, I thought, should be cut down to about 50% Kevin, because we had other people (e.g. Jerry Abbot and me) that could do some writing, and Kevin was clearly overloaded, to the point that a lot of his programs were sub par. It seemed to me that he could probably do a really good program about every other week. I knew that a lot of people didn't like his persona, a problem which obviously would have been meliorated if half the broadcasts featured other people.
I liked his work, I just didn't like his voice.

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I fully admit that there were problems with Kevin's performance but at the same time, he was also a great asset. He created that radio program, which more than anything else was responsible for the growth in NA membership.
It was a good show. In the early years of VNN, when I traveled to meet people during summer, I was always surprised how many of them really liked listening to ADV rather than read it as I did.

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The conflict between you and Kevin was a bad thing for the organization and our cause, and I frankly don't believe you when you say that Bill White's participation didn't exacerbate the situation.
Well, I don't think it's humanly possible for Bill not to exacerbate a situation, but really, he and Streed and whoever else were the parties concerned. I may have made one or two calls max to discuss stuff, I wasn't really involved at all, just waiting to see who ended up in control. I have no idea in what way Strom was involved, nor did I care really. Bill went above and beyond in criticizing Strom, but at the same time, the dude did bad stuff, and he clearly could not accept any criticism. Once he showed that, how could I resist piling on some, knowing he couldn't handle it AND deserved it, at least a little.

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White's presence tended to increase the irreconcilability of both sides, on one side because you had an ally who was loving the drama and encouraging you to dig in your heels, and on the other side because you had aligned yourself with somebody so disreputable.
I wasn't aligned with anybody. I simply told Bill and Fred Streed I would help figure how to run the media if there were a change. I was never an NA insider or really cared much. I just let people know I would help.

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I see many things from that period, when everybody was disoriented after Dr. Pierce's death, that should have been done differently, and one of the most important is that a screwball like Bill White should not have been allowed to have any influence on the situation, and problems that were publicized on internet should have been settled privately.
You're missing the big picture. Pretty easy to see from the outside.

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If we'd had somebody with gravitas as chairman, I think these problems would have been solved. A good chairman might have said, Kevin, do what you can do well and let Linder do what he does well, and stay out of each other's way, and whatever you do, do not present your intra-organizational grievances to the general public. Without this kind of order imposed from the top, personality conflicts went completely out of control.
If Pierce had hired a competent manager and let him run the shop, none of these problems would have cropped up in the first place.
 
Old December 15th, 2009 #42
Hunter Wallace
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Originally Posted by Rounder View Post
How bout it Fade ?? Do you think there's a chance it's true ??
No, I don't. I chalk it up to Lindstedt's usual hyperbole. I've grown accustomed to it.

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As for Fade "coming around", good luck. You're not only gonna need good luck, but some divine intervention to boot. His head is harder than Krupp steele.
I changed my mind on the Jewish Question. I'm sure everyone remembers that brief phase when I was singing the praises of FDR. In hindsight, it looks quite silly. Looking further back, I can see how much I have grown over the past decade. My earliest posts were embarrassingly unreadable.

Note: For the record, I also changed my opinion of you.
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Old December 15th, 2009 #43
Alex Linder
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Originally Posted by Hunter Wallace View Post
It is a personal attack, a low blow, a cheap shot. It is the verbal equivilant of a kick in the groin or an eye gouge.
Mmm...I'm not persuaded. Read up on homosexuality. It's not a light thing. There's a reason he didn't disclose it...to me...knowing I don't like it...when he first showed up at VNN. Not really that honorable behavior you're talking about, is it?

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Yes, I know Greg Johnson. We've met several times. We talk on the phone all the time. I don't know many people who are more valuable assets to the movement. I've heard you say that he wrote some of the best articles ever published by VNN. As for his sexuality, I have never asked him about the matter. Like your Chron's disease, I don't consider it relevant to the struggle we are engaged in.
Ulcerative colitis is not a deviant sexual behavior reflecting mental perversion. If I'd acquired UC by chronically sodomizing duct-taped field mice, you'd be irresponsible not to raise questions. How many queers can you high-roaders draft into your ranks before your righteous wholesomeness starts to stink up your pitch to the whites mesmerized by MTV?

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If I am not in a position to know this, then I am certain you are not either. Even if it were true, it is nowhere near as much of a concern as the flaws of people like Bill White, Rounder, or Hal Turner, not to mention Todd in FL, the amateur bombmaker who used to post here.
Yeah...comparing apples and oranges, rather obviously. Posting on a web forum is hardly the same as occupying a prominent WN post.

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There are substantial criticisms of Sam Francis to be made. He was too soft on the Jews. He was too critical of anti-Semites. He tried to keep a foot in both words, conservative and racialist. To a point, I agree with you.

The personal attacks on Francis - he was an obese homosexual loser - detract from your case. They create sympathy for Francis.
I called him an obese loser, which he was. I only speculated he was a queer. I never accused because I don't know it for a fact. With Johnson, I accused. And so far, neither Johnson nor any of his defenders has denied the charge.

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Taylor is the most courtly, regal person I know.
Yes. That would be the polish in the 'Polished.'

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He conducts himself as a gentleman.
Not in his argumentation. He is dirty as hell in his intellectualizing, his stock in trade.

You started making by excuses for homosexuals; now you're making excuses for jew-exculpaters. I'm afraid this trail will end in the mouth of an alligator!

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This is one of his greatest assets. He doesn't come across as a stereotypical racist. People who would instantly dismiss a Rounder or ANSWP Commander Bill White pay attention to Taylor when he speaks.
Would you agree the Nazis are winners? Would you agree the jews are winners? Find me Taylor's equivalent in either of those two camps. Even if Taylor were 100% successful in getting people to hate niggers - that's like trying to persuade people to like ice cream. You've even said this yourself, in your rational moments. Regardless of your admiration for his leonine carriage, you should be able to see that no one as smart as Taylor would act the way he does - unless he were running a deeper game. EMJones has figured it out. I've figured it out. Michael Piper has figured it out. Why can't you? Are you really that bedazzled by manners? Funny thing is, you hate conservatives, but you are one. You value custom, propriety and bearing like a good Southerner. You are a functional conservative, just as MacDonald and the high-road crew are implicit conservatives.

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This is untrue. I believe Taylor is an asset. He is like a racialist high school teacher. He introduces implicit whites to the basics of racial consciousness. He's good at doing that and I support his work.
We've been over this and over this. You know that whites already know the truth about race. You've said it. You know the stats about relocating whites moving to whiter areas, whites voting against affirmative action and open borders.

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I have a different standard. While I loathe conservatism, I see incrementalism as unavoidable. I define victory as pulling the national discourse on race and Jews in our direction. Taylor and Buchanan are gateways to White Nationalism.
Was the Catholic Center Party a gateway to Nazism? There are no gateways. Especially not in the age of the Internet.

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They bring aspects of our message to a larger audience. I myself followed that path into the movement. How can I condemn Buchanan when it was one of his books that led me to White Nationalism?
Uh, to be unmannerly, I don't really believe you. You've been on the internet for ten years and surely have seen harder stuff than you ever got in his books.

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You're more of a conservative than I am. You know this, Alex.
Yes and no. Yes in that I have a small businessman's respect for the market, whereas you have an academic's respect for the government. And yes in the sense I read Burke and Kirk and some libertarians whereas you read some leftists and communitarians. No in the sense I do not share your respect for manners and propriety when they come at the expensive of effective terms and tactics. Another big functional difference between us is that my entire being is hypersensitively, almost neurasthenically, attuned to the use of terms to pre-win arguments. You by contrast are very, very functionally conservative in using the terms as they are conventionally used. Not saying you don't occasionally coin or appreciate neologism, but to say your default standard is conventional usage. It's parallel to your respect for manners. (I'm all for conventional manners at the dinner table, but not in political warfare, which is in most times carried out in term-struggles and only sometimes on the field.) So it's not so simple to say who is the real conservative.

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You have a lot of substantial criticisms of all of the above (Francis included). Once again, I agree with you to a point. Your conclusion, however, is vanguardist purism. It is myopic to believe that everyone can start out as radical as you are. To newbies, you sound like you are from Neptune.
Terms like vanguardist, mainstream, extremist, purist - they don't mean anything to me, they're just adjectives applied to make the user feel good and the labeled feel weird. As for style, the humor and emotion the MacDonald's throw overboard so they can say they're taking the high road are what allow people to stick with the VNN view until the truth of what we're saying sinks in. It takes no more than two weeks in the vast majority of cases. I'm not speculating, I'm reporting what many, many people initially shocked by my spintros told me. They were repulsed, then converted. Quickly. Analogous to diving into swimming pool. Shocked briefly, then swimming happily.

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I don't know of any homosexuals inside TOQ. Do you have any hard evidence of this?
No, sir, I do not. I speculate. Based on the established fact that tiny, perverse minorities feel best among their own, and actively network to that end.

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Where did Edmund Connolly use the term?
He didn't. As I have said more than once, he, uh, borrowed the concept of needing a mirror term to racism and made it the basis of his essay. He certainly had read what I have written on this subject multiple times over the years - that is why he deliberately refrained from using my coinage loxism, while fretting over the lack of terms. The dog that didn't bark. Not Aryan behavior. But neither is sodomy. I guess taking the high road means overlooking sodomy and plagiarism while distancing ourself from that dirty VNN and their nasty vulgarities.

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MacDonald probably has the same perspective I do: it is easier for us to reach and influence Buchanan's readers than other conservatives. Buchanan is a key player in popularizing our ideas on the far end of the conservative spectrum. He is a gateway to the mainstream. Buchanan and Taylor generally don't attack us. An enemy would return fire.
Taylor doesn't attack VNN, for example, because he has no arguments. Anything he said would look stupid - if his intent were what he claims it is. As it is not, he must stay far, far away from anyone who sees what he's up to. Which he does.

Buchanan doesn't acknowledge us because we don't threaten his income. We exist to him as something he can steal occasional ideas from to preserve his position as the farthest right you can be while remaining respectable. What you and MacDonald can't figure out is that you'd make more inroads with his readers by attacking him, as I do, than defending him, or mentioning him with respect, as MacDonald does. That's an advanced lesson, and neither you nor he are to that level yet. But, and the reason i'm wasting time responding to you, is that you have indicated willingness to adjust your view based on facts, as you came around on the jew thing. In time you will see what I am saying. it might take five years. It might take ten. The reason i tell you is that a whole shark herd of us attacking him simultaneously would be a great force multiplier. It would polarize the spectrum in the public mind between whites and jews rather than conservagives and liberals, the two-party charade the Buchanans you think you should respect help maintain. As I say, this is an advanced lesson. Its truth will not be apparent to you for a few years. MacDonald will never grasp it.

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As a practical matter, what would you have us do? How would you reach into the mainstream? How would you overcome the Neptune Effect?
I got VNN up to 10k on Alexa using humor and emotion, with rich creamy white fact-nougaty goodness in the middle. But you go follow Kevin. I'm sure he can do the same, employing queers and judiciously, high-mindedly throwing humor and emotion to the wind - with the hilarious exception of $PLC.

To turn straight-serious, since you seem to prefer that, the way you win is to polarize. You polarize by vicious funny factual - whatever you got, use it, use it all and make more and throw it hard as you can - attacks on jews and liberals and conservatives including Buchanan and Taylor. You do this over and over and over and over, for years. You couple it with a white activist group. Not essay writers - hush crime spotlighters. They force their way into the mainstream, being utterly uncompromising. At the bottom of their agitation materials you promote your uncompromising hub website. Out of this a party grows. Vicious, complete hostility and nasty humor (and all the other good shit you can gin up), totally towing a racially correct line that We are Whites and Jews are the Enemy. Above all what must be done is make the public see first that the two sides doing battle are WHITES and jews. And second, that whites, sooner or later, are going to win - and they'd better get their ass on the winining side of it will go hard for them.

That's how you do it.

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Of course we should criticize others in the movement. I've criticized Brimelow, Taylor, Buchanan and Francis myself. The question is how we should go about doing it.
How do the winners do it? How do the jews do it? Politely? Or with vicious smears backed by the FBI?

Now, how do the MacDonalds recommend fighting back? Trick question. They don't. They recommend being polite. Overlooking homosexuality. Eschewing all humor save the limpdickiest like $PLC. These babes in the woods have no flipping idea what they're doing. Not the slightest. It's because they have pleasant, ingratiating, middle-class morals and manners, and don't want to consider that these aren't the things that can beat the enemy. Even when they analyze correctly, their implicit conservatism - desire for tastefullness and respectability - overwhelm the analytical conclusions they know to be right. That's the secret to the hold VNN has over them, why everything they do seems in response to a meme we've generated here. It's the cognitive dissonance generated by their knowing we, I, am right, but being unable to overcome their instinctual, emotional, limbic tropism to propriety. To say the least, the jews aren't burdened by this. They go for the jugular. They are the ones to watch, learn from, and emulate.

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I don't think anyone minds you making fair and reasonable criticisms of TOO/TOQ. That's not the issue.
As if to prove my point - what have fair and reasonable got to do with anything? More functional conservatism. I don't want to be fair and reasonable, I want to win. I know how. I don't think the Buchanan tribute band featuring lead singer Fairy and backup band The Reasonables do.

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We're trying to reach people who are scientifically literate, intelligent, and well educated. Unlike the man on the street, these people typically have money and influence.
Yes, this is the crux of the problem here, which neither you, nor the fairy, nor MacDonald understand. Even if you persuade the rich smart guy you're right, it doesn't make him one whit more inclined to risk his body and booty. I mean, it's not like you're offering leadership, are you? No, you're writing essays. Is anybody in the TOQ crew intending to actually lead us to the promised land? Hell, no. They don't even pretend that. They're just interested in duplicating Vdare's fundraising success, is my guess. More essays, more books, more arguments - like we don't already have all we need.

Verbiage, save it is vicious and polarizing, is utterly worthless to us at this point.

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I will save this for my upcoming plunge into conservatism/libertarianism. In the meantime, I will hold this up as an excellent example of what I call "discourse poisoning"; in this case, the penetration of libertarian memes into White Nationalism.
Do that, I will certainly respond to whatever you write. Penetration of the idea that a White Man doesn't have to work fifty percent of his time as a slave for ZOG or even AOG doesn't seem that horrible to me.

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A HS curriculum is a good idea. It is a worthy project. Rusty Mason had expressed interest in doing it. You should speak with him.
Never heard of him. If you can find someone who actually is serious about this, and knows how to do it, I would certainly be interested in helping, especially by raising money to pay for its development.

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I've seen Brimelow deny being a White Nationalist before. Again, there are substantial criticisms of Brimelow to be made, but they don't have to be teethered to the albatross of personal attacks or abusive language.
Don't have to be, should be. Personal attacks are good. Brimelow practically blew a gasket when E. Michael Jones criticized jews. But people think he's on our side. He's not. A black and indelible line must be drawn between our side and right-wingism. That's the only way we can raise our profile in the public eye, the only way we can succeed. As I've said for years.

Last edited by Alex Linder; December 15th, 2009 at 09:25 AM.
 
Old December 15th, 2009 #44
Hadding
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
No, he's anti-jew and it's real.
His criticism seemed to be more of Judaism than of Jews as biological entities. You get the same sociological anti-Judaism from H.G. Wells and some other leftists. It's very convenient for people who are themselves of Jewish extraction.

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Originally Posted by Alex Linder
He's a gray area. Parts of him are horrible, parts of him are solid.
Everybody has faults that have to be overlooked sometimes, but in White's case you are talking about somebody who is compulsively dishonest and manipulative, and does whatever he has to do, says whatever he has to say, to force the center of attention onto himself. Dishonesty is the worst character flaw, and it's especially hard to overlook that in somebody who insists on dominating.

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Originally Posted by Alex Linder
I barely remember it except, geez Kev, do you really have to atom-bomb me? Can't you just call me a useless sihthead? Do you really have to try to kill me off with the ultimate sanction? I felt sorry for him, in a way. There has to be a better way to fight than that, and him with all those brains and can't figure it out.
I agree that the whole matter was ridiculous on both sides, but the dispute would have been easier to resolve if it weren't being played out as an internet drama, and of course Bill White is the King of Internet Drama. I wasn't paying enough attention to internet at the time to say that White was responsible for the way events proceeded, but it seems likely that he encouraged it.

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Originally Posted by Alex Linder
No, I believe his evolution was real. People who are fake or looking to sell out don't act the way he did. At every stage of his evolution he took real risks, and was involved in real activity - none of it was just virtual, safe and indoors.
Frank Collin took real risks too. You can suppose that he was sincere on some level too, but he was a Jewish screwball. Bill White now is saying that his activities were "satire"; I think that undermines your sincerity argument.

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Originally Posted by Alex Linder
Well, that makes it sounds like I was pursuing it, but I really wasn't.
I think it was Fred's idea, and it was a good idea. Bill White's involvement I am pretty sure set off alarms for others.

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Originally Posted by Alex Linder
Well, I don't think it's humanly possible for Bill not to exacerbate a situation....
You are conceding my point, and you are saying is that to some extent it doesn't even matter if Bill White is sincere, because the tendency to generate strife is rooted in his personality.

Last edited by Hadding; December 15th, 2009 at 10:32 AM.
 
Old December 16th, 2009 #45
Hunter Wallace
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
Mmm...I'm not persuaded.
Instead of responding to Greg's substantial points, you made a personal attack. I suppose this would be consistent with your idea that civility and decency should be thrown out the window. You believe in winning, right? That involves hitting back at others with everything you got ... dirt included. Is this not your positon?

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Read up on homosexuality. It's not a light thing. There's a reason he didn't disclose it...to me...knowing I don't like it...when he first showed up at VNN. Not really that honorable behavior you're talking about, is it?
1.) Honestly, I am not really bothered by homosexuality unless it is aggressively thrown in my face. For a racialist, I am pretty tolerant.

2.) I'm assuming Greg didn't consider his sexuality relevant to writing anonymous essays for someone on the internet.

3.) I will note that your aversion to homosexuality puts you far closer to the conservative camp. You come on strong against conservatism in your rhetoric, but in substance your actual positions are identical to theirs on any number of issues. You sound like Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell on homosexuals.

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Ulcerative colitis is not a deviant sexual behavior reflecting mental perversion.
To my knowledge, the APA doesn't consider homosexuality a form of mental perversion. Homosexuals are found in every known society.

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If I'd acquired UC by chronically sodomizing duct-taped field mice, you'd be irresponsible not to raise questions. How many queers can you high-roaders draft into your ranks before your righteous wholesomeness starts to stink up your pitch to the whites mesmerized by MTV?
We're trying to reach a narrow audience: intelligent, well educated, openminded middle class White professionals. These are people with money and influence. Taking a Jerry Falwell position on homosexuality is an albatross in trying to reach this demographic. It is hard enough already to reach them with our positions on race and Jews.

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Yeah...comparing apples and oranges, rather obviously. Posting on a web forum is hardly the same as occupying a prominent WN post.
How so? I heard you say (on the Giles show, I think) that Hal Turner probably turned over the IP addresses of VNN users to the Feds. What about the Shop White fiasco with Bill White and the credit card numbers?

Todd in FL was posting on VNN and making bombs. He was a real domestic terrorist. He attracted the attention of law enforcement agences to everyone who posts here by association. Then you have Rounder who is in the FBI domestic terrorism database.

So, you have at least four individuals associated with domestic terrorism posting on VNN Forum including two known government informants, but you are worried about Greg Johnson writing essays. Hmm, apples and oranges, itz.

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I called him an obese loser, which he was. I only speculated he was a queer. I never accused because I don't know it for a fact. With Johnson, I accused. And so far, neither Johnson nor any of his defenders has denied the charge.
And this is a strategy on your part? Who are you trying to influence? Sam Francis readers? Greg Johnson readers? These people admire Sam and Greg because of their erudition. They're not going to respond well to abusive personal attacks on champions of their issues. In fact, that is likely to have the opposite effect, and from what I can tell, it has.

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Yes. That would be the polish in the 'Polished.'
Intelligent and educated people like polish. They like to think of themselves as sophisticated. Hence, the constrast in their reaction to Jared Taylor and RAHOWA skinheads.

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Not in his argumentation. He is dirty as hell in his intellectualizing, his stock in trade.
I wrote a review of the Giles interview with Jared Taylor. I pointed out where I think he is error, but I didn't use personal attacks. Taylor's readers are far more likely to listen to that type of criticism.

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You started making by excuses for homosexuals; now you're making excuses for jew-exculpaters. I'm afraid this trail will end in the mouth of an alligator!
I really try to get along with everyone. I'm probably the only person in the whole movement who has a positive view of you, Rounder, Lindstedt, and Taylor. The only people I have really feuded with are the philo-Semites like Guy White and Ian Jobling.

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Would you agree the Nazis are winners? Would you agree the jews are winners?
Yes, I would grant the point.

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Find me Taylor's equivalent in either of those two camps. Even if Taylor were 100% successful in getting people to hate niggers - that's like trying to persuade people to like ice cream. You've even said this yourself, in your rational moments.
As Greg and others have noted, the Jews have a harmony amongst themselves. You don't see them wailing into each other. Their attacks are almost universally directed at those they perceive to be their enemies.

Not so on the American Right. This is especially true on the far right. We have individualists fighting like piranhas to be the big fish in the small pool. The best example that comes to mind is the legal feud between Willis Carto and Mark Weber that destroyed Liberty Lobby and sapped IHR of needed funds.

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Regardless of your admiration for his leonine carriage, you should be able to see that no one as smart as Taylor would act the way he does - unless he were running a deeper game. EMJones has figured it out. I've figured it out. Michael Piper has figured it out.
To my knowledge, EMJones and Michael Piper don't know Jared Taylor. They are not in a position to know if he is running a deep game. I want to say that Piper is an underling of Willis Carto who has been attacking Taylor for years. From what I have read of Piper and Jones, I am not all that impressed with their work.

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Why can't you? Are you really that bedazzled by manners? Funny thing is, you hate conservatives, but you are one. You value custom, propriety and bearing like a good Southerner. You are a functional conservative, just as MacDonald and the high-road crew are implicit conservatives.
Well, you got me here. I do believe in manners. I value custom, propriety, decency, and honesty. I try not to hit others with lowblows. If I have dirt on someone, I generally don't use it. I believe in acting like a gentleman. I don't object to you making your points, but I think you should do it in a fair way. You should have some respect for your opponents. This is Gentile respectability.
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Old December 16th, 2009 #46
Mike Parker
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Originally Posted by Hunter Wallace View Post
To my knowledge, the APA doesn't consider homosexuality a form of mental perversion.
There's a reason for that:

Exposed: The Myth That Psychiatry Has Proven That Homosexual Behavior Is Normal

Quote:
What Really Happened?

Numerous psychiatrists over the past decades have described what forces were really at work both inside and outside of the American Psychiatric Association-and what led to the removal of homosexuality as a mental disorder.

Dr. Ronald Bayer explains how homosexual activists captured the APA for political gain.

Dr. Ronald Bayer, a pro-homosexual psychiatrist has described what actually occurred in his book, Homosexuality and American Psychiatry: The Politics of Diagnosis. (1981)

In Chapter 4, "Diagnostic Politics: Homosexuality and the American Psychiatric Association," Dr. Bayer says that the first attack by homosexual activists against the APA began in 1970 when this organization held its convention in San Francisco. Homosexual activists decided to disrupt the conference by interrupting speakers and shouting down and ridiculing psychiatrists who viewed homosexuality as a mental disorder. In 1971, homosexual activist Frank Kameny worked with the Gay Liberation Front collective to demonstrate against the APA's convention. At the 1971 conference, Kameny grabbed the microphone and yelled, "Psychiatry is the enemy incarnate. Psychiatry has waged a relentless war of extermination against us. You may take this as a declaration of war against you."

Homosexuals forged APA credentials and gained access to exhibit areas in the conference. They threatened anyone who claimed that homosexuals needed to be cured.

Kameny had found an ally inside of the APA named Kent Robinson who helped the homosexual activist present his demand that homosexuality be removed from the DSM. At the 1972 convention, homosexual activists were permitted to set up a display booth, entitled "Gay, Proud and Healthy."

Kameny was then permitted to be part of a panel of psychiatrists who were to discuss homosexuality. The effort to remove homosexuality as a mental disorder from the DSM was the result of power politics, threats, and intimidation, not scientific discoveries.

Prior to the APA's 1973 convention, several psychiatrists attempted to organize opposition to the efforts of homosexuals to remove homosexual behavior from the DSM. Organizing this effort were Drs. Irving Bieber and Charles Socarides who formed the Ad Hoc Committee Against the Deletion of Homosexuality from DSM-II.

The DSM-II listed homosexuality as an abnormal behavior under section "302. Sexual Deviations." It was the first deviation listed.

After much political pressure, a committee of the APA met behind closed doors in 1973 and voted to remove homosexuality as a mental disorder from the DSM-II. Opponents of this effort were given 15 minutes to protest this change, according to Dr. Jeffrey Satinover, in Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth. Satinover writes that after this vote was taken, the decision was to be voted on by the entire APA membership. The National Gay Task Force purchased the APA's mailing list and sent out a letter to the APA members urging them to vote to remove homosexuality as a disorder. No APA member was informed that the mailing had been funded by this homosexual activist group.

According to Satinover, "How much the 1973 APA decision was motivated by politics is only becoming clear even now. While attending a conference in England in 1994, I met a man who told me an account that he had told no one else. He had been in the gay life for years but had left the lifestyle. He recounted how after the 1973 APA decision, he and his lover, along with a certain very highly placed officer of the APA Board of Trustees and his lover, all sat around the officer's apartment celebrating their victory. For among the gay activists placed high in the APA who maneuvered to ensure a victory was this man-suborning from the top what was presented to both the membership and the public as a disinterested search for truth."

Dr. Socarides Speaks Out

Dr. Satinover shows how APA's policies were influcenced by closeted homosexual APA leaders.

Dr. Charles Socarides has set the record straight on how homosexuals inside and outside of the APA forced this organization to remove homosexuality as a mental disorder. This was done without any valid scientific evidence to prove that homosexuality is not a disordered behavior.

Dr. Socarides, writing in Sexual Politics and Scientific Logic: The Issue of Homosexuality writes: "To declare a condition a 'non-condition,' a group of practitioners had removed it from our list of serious psychosexual disorders. The action was all the more remarkable when one considers that it involved an out-of-hand and peremptory disregard and dismissal not only of hundreds of psychiatric and psychoanalytic research papers and reports, but also a number of other serious studies by groups of psychiatrists, psychologists, and educators over the past seventy years…"

Socarides continued: "For the next 18 years, the APA decision served as a Trojan horse, opening the gates to widespread psychological and social change in sexual customs and mores. The decision was to be used on numerous occasions for numerous purposes with the goal of normalizing homosexuality and elevating it to an esteemed status.
Reminds me of Vatican II.
 
Old December 16th, 2009 #47
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
We've been over this and over this. You know that whites already know the truth about race. You've said it. You know the stats about relocating whites moving to whiter areas, whites voting against affirmative action and open borders.
Where I live, Whites know the truth about race, sure. Unfortunately, few White Americans live in areas that are 50% black! The opinion polls clearly show that Whites believe racial differences are environmental, not hereditary. There is probably a taboo effect at work here, but clearly a huge percentage of Whites are really and truly racially naive. This is where Jared Taylor and HBD come in handy.

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Was the Catholic Center Party a gateway to Nazism? There are no gateways. Especially not in the age of the Internet.
In some ways. There was a strong sentiment that Germany had been treated unfairly by the Western Allies. German nationalism was still held in high esteem in the political mainstream. These attitudes undoubtedly paved the way for Hitler.

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Uh, to be unmannerly, I don't really believe you. You've been on the internet for ten years and surely have seen harder stuff than you ever got in his books.
I've always told the same story. Buchanan's book The Death of the West hit me like a ton of bricks. It was a shock to learn that I would one day be a minority in my own country. I became extremely interested in immigration and started searching the net for discussions groups.

That's how I stumbled upon Stormfront. I was exposed to White Nationalism and the Jewish Question there in late 2001. I stayed around long enough to solidify my identity as a racialist. At first, I disputed the Jewish Question, but I was reasonable enough to research the matter on my own. My own research led me to where I am today.

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Yes and no. Yes in that I have a small businessman's respect for the market, whereas you have an academic's respect for the government. And yes in the sense I read Burke and Kirk and some libertarians whereas you read some leftists and communitarians.
You are pro-market, anti-government, pro-individualism, anti-gay, anti-environmentalism, anti-space exploration, etc. You're a classical liberal with an authoritarian streak on race and Jews. You are indisputably a rightwinger and have said so yourself.

I come from a leftwing background. I'm very critical of free market capitalism. I support many popular government social problems. I believe government can be a force for good. I think Americans are too individualistic; too absorbed in their own lives. I don't have a problem with homosexuals. I'm strongly pro-conservation and pro-environment. I'm strongly in favor of space exploration.

I believe in reason, tolerance, and openmindedness. If non-Whites were eliminated from the equation, I would support "social justice." I'm also in favor of a more equitable distribution of wealth.

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No in the sense I do not share your respect for manners and propriety when they come at the expensive of effective terms and tactics. Another big functional difference between us is that my entire being is hypersensitively, almost neurasthenically, attuned to the use of terms to pre-win arguments. You by contrast are very, very functionally conservative in using the terms as they are conventionally used. Not saying you don't occasionally coin or appreciate neologism, but to say your default standard is conventional usage. It's parallel to your respect for manners. (I'm all for conventional manners at the dinner table, but not in political warfare, which is in most times carried out in term-struggles and only sometimes on the field.) So it's not so simple to say who is the real conservative.
Yes, I am in favor of manners and propriety. From what I gather, you believe that Jews are winners and that we should imitate the them. In political warfare, we should be as nasty as possible.

You forget to factor into the equation the fact that you are a rightwing individualist. It would be more accurate to describe you as a loose cannon firing at others who carry our flag.

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Terms like vanguardist, mainstream, extremist, purist - they don't mean anything to me, they're just adjectives applied to make the user feel good and the labeled feel weird.
I would say these are important and real divisions within our social movement.

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As for style, the humor and emotion the MacDonald's throw overboard so they can say they're taking the high road are what allow people to stick with the VNN view until the truth of what we're saying sinks in. It takes no more than two weeks in the vast majority of cases. I'm not speculating, I'm reporting what many, many people initially shocked by my spintros told me. They were repulsed, then converted. Quickly. Analogous to diving into swimming pool. Shocked briefly, then swimming happily.
MacDonald has never said that humor and emotion should be thrown overboard. He is an academic trying to reach an academic audience. He would not be opposed to others taking his ideas and using humor and emotion to reach other demographics.

That's not the issue. It is hitching the Jewish Question to eliminationism, vulgarity and crudity that he dislikes. Even within VNN, I doubt the majority of your supporters are willing to endorse genocide with their real names.

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No, sir, I do not. I speculate. Based on the established fact that tiny, perverse minorities feel best among their own, and actively network to that end.
In other words, you are spreading unsubstantiated rumors. This is what Bill White used to do on Overthrow.com.

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He didn't. As I have said more than once, he, uh, borrowed the concept of needing a mirror term to racism and made it the basis of his essay. He certainly had read what I have written on this subject multiple times over the years - that is why he deliberately refrained from using my coinage loxism, while fretting over the lack of terms. The dog that didn't bark. Not Aryan behavior. But neither is sodomy. I guess taking the high road means overlooking sodomy and plagiarism while distancing ourself from that dirty VNN and their nasty vulgarities.
1.) You seem to believe that you are the first person to realize that we need a term to describe the Jewish pathological hatred of Gentiles.

2.) I don't understand why you are so upset. If I had coined the term, I would want it to catch on. I would be trying to get others to use it. The more it circulates the better. Isn't that the whole point?

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Taylor doesn't attack VNN, for example, because he has no arguments. Anything he said would look stupid - if his intent were what he claims it is. As it is not, he must stay far, far away from anyone who sees what he's up to. Which he does.
Taylor probably thinks he has better things to do than to come here and get in a no holds barred verbal cage match with you.
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Old December 16th, 2009 #48
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Buchanan doesn't acknowledge us because we don't threaten his income. We exist to him as something he can steal occasional ideas from to preserve his position as the farthest right you can be while remaining respectable. What you and MacDonald can't figure out is that you'd make more inroads with his readers by attacking him, as I do, than defending him, or mentioning him with respect, as MacDonald does.
I have no objection to criticizing Buchanan, but shouldn't he be criticized in such a way that would prove most effective at winning over his sympathizers? I haven't seen any evidence that your abusive personal attacks are working.

On the contrary, most people seem to get defensive and react with hostility. It looks to me like you have only succeeded in isolating yourself from everyone else in the movement, which is a shame, because you are genuinely talented.

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That's an advanced lesson, and neither you nor he are to that level yet. But, and the reason i'm wasting time responding to you, is that you have indicated willingness to adjust your view based on facts, as you came around on the jew thing. In time you will see what I am saying. it might take five years. It might take ten. The reason i tell you is that a whole shark herd of us attacking him simultaneously would be a great force multiplier. It would polarize the spectrum in the public mind between whites and jews rather than conservagives and liberals, the two-party charade the Buchanans you think you should respect help maintain. As I say, this is an advanced lesson. Its truth will not be apparent to you for a few years. MacDonald will never grasp it.
Perhaps you are right. I consider myself a rational person. I won't hesitate to change my view in light of new evidence. If I ever find reason to believe you are right about Buchanan, I will share it with you.

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I got VNN up to 10k on Alexa using humor and emotion, with rich creamy white fact-nougaty goodness in the middle. But you go follow Kevin. I'm sure he can do the same, employing queers and judiciously, high-mindedly throwing humor and emotion to the wind - with the hilarious exception of $PLC.
Alexa generates its rating by collecting data from users who have installed their toolbar which tracks their web movements. Only 2% of internet users have Alexa. This is why my Alexa rating is all over the map while the Quantcast data (which directly measures traffic) shows little or no change.

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To turn straight-serious, since you seem to prefer that, the way you win is to polarize. You polarize by vicious funny factual - whatever you got, use it, use it all and make more and throw it hard as you can - attacks on jews and liberals and conservatives including Buchanan and Taylor. You do this over and over and over and over, for years. You couple it with a white activist group. Not essay writers - hush crime spotlighters. They force their way into the mainstream, being utterly uncompromising. At the bottom of their agitation materials you promote your uncompromising hub website. Out of this a party grows. Vicious, complete hostility and nasty humor (and all the other good shit you can gin up), totally towing a racially correct line that We are Whites and Jews are the Enemy. Above all what must be done is make the public see first that the two sides doing battle are WHITES and jews. And second, that whites, sooner or later, are going to win - and they'd better get their ass on the winining side of it will go hard for them.

That's how you do it.
I disagree.

1.) We can only win through incrementalism (gradually pushing our ideas into the mainstream). The Left has exploited the Overton Window with great success.

2.) In order to push our ideas into the mainstream, we need a chain of discursive spaces that are progressively more moderate, or more radical, depending on which way you look at it.

3.) We need sympathizers (cryptos) in key positions along this chain who constantly hint at a more radical position.

4.) This creates a path from the mainstream to the fringe down which sympathizers can travel. Case in point, the path I took to White Nationalism through Pat Buchanan, a mainstream political figure.

That's how we do it.

1.) Saddling yourself with extreme positions - for instance, exterminating the Jews - is guaranteed to backfire. The overwhelming majority of Whites will recoil in moral disgust. Within the WN movement, you have only made yourself radioactive. No one wants to be associated with someone who openly promotes genocide. You are doing nothing but isolating yourself.

2.) In taking such extreme positions, you attract a lot of mentally unstable individuals, people like Todd in FL. You are inviting law enforcement agencies to get on your case. You are running the risk of going to prison. We have already seen Bill White and Hal Turner get in trouble for pushing the boundries of free speech.

3.) Attacking Sam Francis, Greg Johnson, and Jared Taylor with smears and personal attacks hasn't won you any sympathy with their audience. Again, it has backfired. You have only succeeded in highlighting the qualities that people find admirable in them. As a strategy, it just doesn't work.

4.) You have a record of attacking all sorts of people in the movement. This has created an enormous amount of animus towards you. Within the WN movement, you have isolated yourself. If you can't build a coalition within the racialist community itself, how do you expect to reach out to non-racialists?

Your valid insights:

1.) It is a great idea to use humor and emotion to reach a wider audience. The average White isn't going to read texts as dry or intellectual as the Kevin MacDonald trilogy. You have a genuine talent in this regard.

2.) You have a sharp mind. Many of your criticisms of Buchanan and Francis are on target. Unfortunately, your style of presentation often causes people to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

3.) You are right that conservatives are too nice. Jews fight nasty. We should be as nasty to them as they are to us.

4.) You are right about creating a polarization between WN and the mainstream.
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Old December 16th, 2009 #49
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How do the winners do it? How do the jews do it? Politely? Or with vicious smears backed by the FBI?
Jews are vicious towards out-groups, but practice in-group altruism. In contrast, Whites often viciously fight amongst themselves, as we are seeing here.

Quote:
Now, how do the MacDonalds recommend fighting back?
1.) We believe in influencing elites: rational, intelligent, educated, sophisticated people with money and influence. We're not trying to reach mental defectives like Todd in FL or kooks like jimbo.

2.) Towards this end, we believe in creating a new type of racialist and anti-Semitic discourse, one that is fact based, rational, and informed by science.

3.) We're busily creating a real vanguard to spearhead a social movement with mainstream aspirations.

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Trick question. They don't. They recommend being polite.
In other words, we don't shoot people who carry our banner. That would be counterproductive.

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Overlooking homosexuality.
For starters, we don't want to be stereotyped and dismissed as mindless haters. We reject the Fred Phelps strategy of outreach. The audience we are trying to influence are not the people who follow Jerry Falwell.

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Eschewing all humor save the limpdickiest like $PLC.
This is nonsense. We don't have any objection to using humor and emotion, but cracking jokes about genocide get us nowhere. Believe it or not, we are not all academics. We have all sorts of people reaching out to Whites in various ways.

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These babes in the woods have no flipping idea what they're doing. Not the slightest. It's because they have pleasant, ingratiating, middle-class morals and manners, and don't want to consider that these aren't the things that can beat the enemy.
We're trying to reach middle class people who have those pleasant, middle class morals and manners. We plan on competing with conservatives for their support. Naturally, we have to show some deference to their status concerns. That's realism on our part.

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Even when they analyze correctly, their implicit conservatism - desire for tastefullness and respectability - overwhelm the analytical conclusions they know to be right.
I have to question this strategic stroke of genius: what is sowing as much division, animosity, and discord within our own ranks supposed to accomplish?

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That's the secret to the hold VNN has over them, why everything they do seems in response to a meme we've generated here.
Is that really the case? Does anyone truly believe that VNN with its Tard Corral is reaching a better audience than we are?

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It's the cognitive dissonance generated by their knowing we, I, am right, but being unable to overcome their instinctual, emotional, limbic tropism to propriety. To say the least, the jews aren't burdened by this. They go for the jugular. They are the ones to watch, learn from, and emulate.
We're willing to grant that Alex makes a lot of good points. We grant that Alex is extremely talented. Otherwise, we wouldn't bother him. Unfortunately, Alex is one of those people who is constitutionally incapable of working with others. The same individualist streak that led him out of the mainstream has isolated him within the movement. He will always be the perennial outsider.

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As if to prove my point - what have fair and reasonable got to do with anything? More functional conservatism.
1.) It is the right thing to do.
2.) It is a better strategy.

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I don't want to be fair and reasonable, I want to win. I know how. I don't think the Buchanan tribute band featuring lead singer Fairy and backup band The Reasonables do.
What have you won? You've set a course for the fringe.

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Yes, this is the crux of the problem here, which neither you, nor the fairy, nor MacDonald understand. Even if you persuade the rich smart guy you're right, it doesn't make him one whit more inclined to risk his body and booty. I mean, it's not like you're offering leadership, are you?
It matters a great deal if, say, a multimillionaire were leave us an endowment.

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No, you're writing essays.
In the 1920's and 1930's, Jews were writing essays. A has to come before B.

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Is anybody in the TOQ crew intending to actually lead us to the promised land? Hell, no. They don't even pretend that. They're just interested in duplicating Vdare's fundraising success, is my guess. More essays, more books, more arguments - like we don't already have all we need.
You never answered my question. What happened to Dietrich? He was at VNN for years. It is my understanding that he left to start his own little project.

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Verbiage, save it is vicious and polarizing, is utterly worthless to us at this point.
Observation: Linder is trying to polarize White Nationalists with vicious smears, not Jews and Whites.

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Do that, I will certainly respond to whatever you write. Penetration of the idea that a White Man doesn't have to work fifty percent of his time as a slave for ZOG or even AOG doesn't seem that horrible to me.
Looking forward to it. I've written far too much about White Nationalism and the Jewish Question lately. I plan on getting more engaged with popular culture, the political mainstream, and other movements that compete with us.

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Never heard of him. If you can find someone who actually is serious about this, and knows how to do it, I would certainly be interested in helping, especially by raising money to pay for its development.
Note: I found Rusty Mason through daily blogging.

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Don't have to be, should be. Personal attacks are good. Brimelow practically blew a gasket when E. Michael Jones criticized jews. But people think he's on our side. He's not. A black and indelible line must be drawn between our side and right-wingism. That's the only way we can raise our profile in the public eye, the only way we can succeed. As I've said for years.
I've been reading VDARE for almost eight years now. It is one of the best resources on the net. They publish Kevin MacDonald and Jared Taylor. I wish VDARE were more radical, but instead of criticizing them, I think our time is better spent creating a viable alternative.
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Old December 16th, 2009 #50
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Are my posts being edited or deleted? In one thread several days ago I made a post and included an image. The image was removed shortly thereafter.

I also made a post regarding Giles interpretation of the call and interaction he had with Dan Jones and that post seems to have been deleted. At least I can't find it in the several Giles threads that I've searched.

Last edited by OTPTT; December 16th, 2009 at 09:54 AM.
 
Old December 16th, 2009 #51
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In the 1920's and 1930's, Jews were writing essays.
That’s exactly the wrong analogy, and it shows why all the essays are just cloning themselves and generating more essays, not inspiring practical action in the real world such as Alex proposes. The essay can inform, but can it convey courage? When those Jews were writing essays, other Jews were doing political agitation, running civil rights and labor orgs and litigating at every level. They didn’t face the risks WN do today: the authorities didn’t terrorize them and, as E. Michael Jones has shown, much of the WASP establishment actually supported them for their own misguided reasons. If there’s an apt Jewish analogy to WN it’s the Bolsheviks in Russia, who were in a real fight. The one guy at TOQ who gets this is VNN alum O’Meara, who understands something more than intellect needs to be engaged.
 
Old December 16th, 2009 #52
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Fade-Prozium-Hunter Wallace writes ably and daily, there is value to him and what he does. He is wrong about certain things, but, as he came around on jews, he will come around on the other stuff we VNNers are right on. They always do. Because they're Aryans, and they can only hold out against the truth for so long, and then it becomes undeniable. It will be the same with Johnson. I am not their enemy.

I will respond to Ebbe's many responses in this thread later, have been responding to posts at his site today.

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/200...#comment-27141
After almost 6 years on here I've learned to trust your judgment. You were right all along about Bill White, for example. Maybe Fade does mean well, at times, after all, terribly misguided though he be, and thus, as you say, has value. He's a smart fellow. No doubt about that.

Hey Fade, regarding you not having the right personality to become a WN politician or public spokesman, let me tell you something. I was an introvert all my life and absolutely terrified of public speaking UNTIL I became jew wise. Understanding the GD jew menace tormented me day and nite and spurred me not only to run my mouth publicly every chance I got, but to action, as well. Like Hitler said: "Triumph of the will". So try and triumph over your's.

As for "Rounder being on the FBI's domestic terrorism database", I'd be a mighty unhappy "trooper" if I wasn't. Truth be known, we're all on there, at least the one classified Top-Secret-For-Jew-Eyes-Only.
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Old December 16th, 2009 #53
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That’s exactly the wrong analogy, and it shows why all the essays are just cloning themselves and generating more essays, not inspiring practical action in the real world such as Alex proposes.
1.) Did you listen to the Kevin MacDonald interview? He supports practical action in the real world. In fact, MacDonald attended an actual protest quite recently. He was out there carrying a sign.

2.) I support practical action. In the Deep South, I think an activist organization could work. It could get the attention of explicit Whites who have never heard of White Nationalism. In other parts of the country, activism will just result in more ritual shaming. It will drive sympathizers deeper into the closet.

3.) If Alex wants to engage in practical action, why doesn't he take his own advice? I haven't seen any follow up to the Knoxville rally. What about Rounder? Why isn't he organizing street level protests in Missouri? It is one thing to say we need more real world activism. It is another to get out there and actually do it.

4.) I'm willing to participate in any street level protest in my local area.

5.) We also need those essays. They change minds. In the MacDonald interview, a caller said his view of the Jewish Question had been changed by reading a MacDonald essay.

6.) Alex is a writer. That's his strength. Unfortunately, I don't see him writing much either. He has abandoned the VNN frontpage to Socrates. I'm running two daily blogs. I'm getting published by TOQ Online and Amren. I even find the time to post here and respond to you guys.

7.) Did you know that Greg Johnson has close ties to the BANA people who protest out in California?

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The essay can inform, but can it convey courage?
Essays can definitely reach people who have courage. William Pierce wrote The Turner Diaries. He inspired Tim McVeigh to blow up the federal building in Oklahoma City. He inspired Bob Mathews and The Order.

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When those Jews were writing essays, other Jews were doing political agitation, running civil rights and labor orgs and litigating at every level.
That's true. The Jews did it the smart way though. They didn't have their best scholars out there organizing street protests. They didn't have their best writers holding up signs and going to jail. Instead, the Jews contributed in their own way: the rich Jews donated money, the academics wrote destructive texts, the journalists pumped out destructive memes, the producers made popular films, etc.

This much is clear: Alex is a better writer than a speaker. He is better at writing than fundraising or organizing protests. He should stick to doing what he does best. Unfortunately, he seems to have lost interest in even doing that.

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They didn’t face the risks WN do today: the authorities didn’t terrorize them and, as E. Michael Jones has shown, much of the WASP establishment actually supported them for their own misguided reasons.
Not true. Jews were thrown in prison under both Red Scares. They were prosecuted under the Smith Act.

Quote:
If there’s an apt Jewish analogy to WN it’s the Bolsheviks in Russia, who were in a real fight. The one guy at TOQ who gets this is VNN alum O’Meara, who understands something more than intellect needs to be engaged.
Michael O'Meara writes books and essays. I've met him in person before. I wonder what he thinks of Linder's attacks on Greg Johnson.
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Old December 16th, 2009 #54
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German nationalism was still held in high esteem in the political mainstream. These attitudes undoubtedly paved the way for Hitler.
Almost everything about national-socialism represented some longstanding trend coming to fruition. It was an organic development from the German political and intellectual tradition.
 
Old December 16th, 2009 #55
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1.)


What about Rounder? Why isn't he organizing street level protests in Missouri? It is one thing to say we need more real world activism. It is another to get out there and actually do it.
Wait just a cotton pickin minute there, Fade. I'm 69 freakin years old. You're what ?? 33 ?? I was Ku Kluckin and Storm-troopin before you were a gleam in your daddy's eye.

So experience that "triumph of the will" I told you about, and do your duty. Alex stated many times that VNN'ers are welcome to use this forum to recruit and organize for activisms. So hop to it.
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Old December 16th, 2009 #56
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Wait just a cotton pickin minute there, Fade. I'm 69 freakin years old. You're what ?? 33 ?? I was Ku Kluckin and Storm-troopin before you were a gleam in your daddy's eye.
29. I see nothing stopping you from organizing street protests. You have been gung ho about it. Why not follow your own advice? If you are successful, others will take notice. You might inspire them to, ah, get off their asses and do something.

Quote:
So experience that "triumph of the will" I told you about, and do your duty.
I've done far more than most. I founded one of the most popular racialist forums on the internet. That forum spawned countless others that appealed to niche audiences. Outside of Stormfront and VNN Forum, I have had a massive impact on the WN cyber scene, and WN is almost exclusively an online movement.

I'm now running the most active and popular White Nationalist blog on the internet. I just started a second blog that deals exclusively with the Jewish Question.

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/
http://antisemitica.wordpress.com/

My work has been published in TOQ Online and Amren. I'm stirring up an enormous dust cloud with my writing. I might have even knocked some sense into Linder: I notice he has returned to his perch on the VNN homepage.

Quote:
Alex stated many times that VNN'ers are welcome to use this forum to recruit and organize for activisms. So hop to it.
In my offline time, I am creating a racialist social network in Southeast Alabama, on top of everything else that I do.
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Old December 16th, 2009 #57
H.T.R.
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Originally Posted by Rounder View Post
Wait just a cotton pickin minute there, Fade. I'm 69 freakin years old. You're what ?? 33 ?? I was Ku Kluckin and Storm-troopin before you were a gleam in your daddy's eye.
LOL! That was awesome!
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Old December 16th, 2009 #58
Hunter Wallace
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1.) The success of my blog might may have encouraged Kevin MacDonald and friends to create one of their own. It is quickly shaping up to be an invaluable online resource.

http://theoccidentalobserver.net/tooblog/

2.) I've been fighting back the philo-Semitic horde for months. I put a lot of effort into refuting Guy White's nonsense about Jewish power.

3.) I have sent traffic to Jim Giles new radio show and other worthy projects.

4.) I have pushed a lot of people in a more radical direction.

5.) I have done a lot to clean up White Nationalism and discussion of the Jewish Question.
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Old December 16th, 2009 #59
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29. I see nothing stopping you from organizing street protests. You have been gung ho about it. Why not follow your own advice? If you are successful, others will take notice. You might inspire them to, ah, get off their asses and do something.
You don't see it from your computer stool, but if you come take one look at this old, worn-out redneck, you'll damn sure see it. I've got wrinkles criss-crossing wrinkles. I have no energy at all except after coffee, and my pecker doesn't stir even after viagra. The gals used to smile at me, now they laugh at me - even the old ones.

I was 55 when released from 5-year parole in 95. Too old even then to found another activist, political, membership organization - the only kind I'd devote myself to. The leader of such a group needs 15-20 years to build it up while having a good degree of confidence in success.



Quote:
I've done far more than most. I founded one of the most popular racialist forums on the internet. That forum spawned countless others that appealed to niche audiences. Outside of Stormfront and VNN Forum, I have had a massive impact on the WN cyber scene, and WN is almost exclusively an online movement.

I'm now running the most active and popular White Nationalist blog on the internet. I just started a second blog that deals exclusively with the Jewish Question.

http://www.occidentaldissent.com/
http://antisemitica.wordpress.com/

My work has been published in TOQ Online and Amren. I'm stirring up an enormous dust cloud with my writing. I might have even knocked some sense into Linder: I notice he has returned to his perch on the VNN homepage.



In my offline time, I am creating a racialist social network in Southeast Alabama, on top of everything else that I do.
Well, Alex says you have "value" so I'll take his word for it. I like your article entitled: "Iran Sanctions", and the fact you admit being an anti-semite. I'll brouse your blogs from time to time. Some good stuff there.
And I'll wish you much success if you'll promise to keep in mind: "Triumph of the will".
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Old December 17th, 2009 #60
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Originally Posted by Hunter Wallace View Post
1.) Did you listen to the Kevin MacDonald interview?
Disappointing. MacDonald offers up the weasel words “different strokes,” and then proceeds to attack Alex. The high road gets lower by the day. And whose permission does MacDonald need to talk to Alex?

Did he really say Alex doesn’t make any points that MacDonald doesn’t? Alex developed the zero-sum model of racialist politics, which shows that conservatives are the enemies of WN. For such a crude guy, that’s a sophisticated, original analysis.

Quote:
5.) We also need those essays. They change minds. In the MacDonald interview, a caller said his view of the Jewish Question had been changed by reading a MacDonald essay.
I'd say the same thing, and not just about the Jews. But that doesn't validate it as political strategy. If the goal is to influence "elites," how do we know when/if it's having that effect? Some suggestions: EO Wilson, founder of sociobiology and no stranger to controversy, says MacDonald is right about the Jews. A Fortune 500 CEO is moved by a TOQ essay to drop all optional diversity efforts and decides merely to comply with the letter of the law. A Wall Street law firm offers to litigate for the white ADL. If these people are open to intellectual persuasion, they should respond to TOQ since real science handily beats the Jews' pseudo-science. But if they act out of short-term self-interest, they'll be along for the ride only when they're more afraid of WN than of the Jews. That suggests Alex's Sam Francis strategy.

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Did you know that Greg Johnson has close ties to the BANA people who protest out in California?
I'm afraid to google "BANA." Sorry.
 
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