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Old December 17th, 2009 #61
Donnie in Ohio
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Originally Posted by Mike Parker View Post



I'm afraid to google "BANA." Sorry.
BANA = Bay Area National Anarchist

www.tribalanarchist.com
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Old December 17th, 2009 #62
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100 million white men on this continent, but not one with the guts and capabilities to start up an activist, political party for white folks.

Why not ?? It's perfectly legal. We still have free speech, freedom of the press, and the freedom to unite and organize to seek redress of our grievances.

Those who say it's impossible also admit in the same breath that violence is our only way out. So what's holding you back from that ??

White Europeans have activist political parties even though their JOG governments are far more repressive than our's.

And forget all that crap about gathering up signatures on petitions or trying to get your WN party on election ballots. All that will come later after you've become sufficiently numerous. For now, WN party members can run as democrats or republicans or as write-in candidates, but on WN principles and platforms.

The 2010 congressional election is an excellent time to found the WN party. File to run as a write-in candidate for either the US senate or congress. Doesn't cost one cent. Then purchase 1-minute radio ads for only $5-$15 each to advertise your new WN party and your contact information and solicit members, all on each separate radio ad. VNN'ers will provide finances for hundreds of such radio ads. And get this, all commercial radio stations are required, by federal laws, to broadcast your ads and they cannot censor or change one word in them. For only $15.00, your messages will be heard by tens-of-thousands of white people. After several dozen have been broadcasted on a dozen or more stations, fed-up white people will have flooded into your WN party as party members and/or financial supporters. Then, it's just a matter of organizing, recruiting more and more, and building stronger and stronger.

If not you, then who ?? If not now, then when ??

Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of the idea whose time has come. That idea is THE WHITE FREEDOM PARTY !!!

Sieg Heil !!!
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Old December 17th, 2009 #63
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Originally Posted by Mike Parker View Post
Disappointing. MacDonald offers up the weasel words “different strokes,” and then proceeds to attack Alex. The high road gets lower by the day. And whose permission does MacDonald need to talk to Alex?
I didn't hear MacDonald attack Alex. He made some reasonable criticisms. VNN Forum was infested for the longest time by retards, kooks, nutbars, unstable individuals, clownish Neo-Nazis, and agent provocateurs. I clearly remember those days. There has always been a lot of vulgarity and crudity here. It is only recently that Alex finally got tired of these people and systematically purged them.

Quote:
Did he really say Alex doesn’t make any points that MacDonald doesn’t? Alex developed the zero-sum model of racialist politics, which shows that conservatives are the enemies of WN. For such a crude guy, that’s a sophisticated, original analysis.
I don't recall MacDonald making that criticism of Linder. I'm sure he would acknowledge that Alex often makes valid insights.

Quote:
I'd say the same thing, and not just about the Jews. But that doesn't validate it as political strategy.
It is based on the observation that political victories are expensive and fleeting. For all their political victories, the conservatives have decisively lost the culture war. For all their street level protests, nothing has changed. If we change the culture, political victories will naturally follow. If we win at the ballox box, our culture won't necessarily change.

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If the goal is to influence "elites," how do we know when/if it's having that effect?
This goes on largely behind the scenes.

Quote:
Some suggestions: EO Wilson, founder of sociobiology and no stranger to controversy, says MacDonald is right about the Jews. A Fortune 500 CEO is moved by a TOQ essay to drop all optional diversity efforts and decides merely to comply with the letter of the law. A Wall Street law firm offers to litigate for the white ADL. If these people are open to intellectual persuasion, they should respond to TOQ since real science handily beats the Jews' pseudo-science. But if they act out of short-term self-interest, they'll be along for the ride only when they're more afraid of WN than of the Jews. That suggests Alex's Sam Francis strategy.
I don't see anyone at TOQ advocating paleoconservatism.

Quote:
I'm afraid to google "BANA." Sorry.
BANA (Bay Area National Anarchists) is an activist group out in California. They hold steet level protests. Their material is often posted on Majority Rights.
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Old December 17th, 2009 #64
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Originally Posted by Rounder View Post
100 million white men on this continent, but not one with the guts and capabilities to start up an activist, political party for white folks.
It's been done many times. Unfortunately White people are under the impression that the Republicans are their party. It would take a large sum of money, e.g. the fortune of a Ross Perot, to convince them that there is a viable alternative. The rhetoric of the party would also have to be very cautiously stated for them to feel comfortable with it.
 
Old December 17th, 2009 #65
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VNN Forum was infested for the longest time by retards, kooks, nutbars, unstable individuals, clownish Neo-Nazis, and agent provocateurs.
those were the glory days. why else come to the forum?
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Old December 17th, 2009 #66
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Unfortunately White people are under the impression that the Republicans are their party.
True that!
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Old December 17th, 2009 #67
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
Regardless of your admiration for his leonine carriage...
"Leonine carriage." You know, dictionary.com ought to be paying you a salary for all the hits you've sent them from me.
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Old December 17th, 2009 #68
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This goes on largely behind the scenes.
That's what those who can't point to any real influence always say. Sam Francis made the same empty claim for years. It's just a pose to impress supporters.

Paleocon Francis didn't influence the power elite, the power elite kicked his ass. Causing him to break down blubbering about how we WN outsiders didn't support him but jews did! My term faileocon has already, in its short life, had more real influence on politics than SF's entire career.

KM has value when he's digging up quotations from jews. Less value when he's analyzing jewish strategy. And no value when he moves into activism down the same path as every other right-winger since WWII.

Kevin MacDonald is a conservative. I wonder how long it will take you to grasp this. You seem to think that placing money and status ahead of racial politics = effective radicalism, but I suggest it is just more of the same old failed conservatism. It may raise money from donors, as conservative Vdare has done, but it won't produce the change we seek.

The premise of your lengthy responses on earlier posts in this thread, which I just read and will respond to later, is that there's a way to work the situation. It is clear you believe this Overton process will somehow get our ideas into the mainstream. It's dim to me how this is to be achieved, though - in practice, if not in theory. The fundamental problem here, which you don't seem to realize, nor does MacDonald, is that you don't have anybody sympathetic to you who owns anything substantial. Where has the exact same approach gotten Jared Taylor in ten years? I went over there for the first time in a long time to read the responses to your article he printed. It appears to me that AmRen has already reached the point of diminishing returns. Which makes sense. It's just gerbil-wheel. Whine about black crime, but never do anything about it, not even discuss the "why." And you're defending this guy while claiming you're not conservative. I don't understand that. I don't think it meets the test of simple logic.

But to get back on track, I don't see how your Overton theory can work in practice because, unlike the communist parallel you draw, you and I and KM and Johnson - we don't have sympathetic relatives owning/advertising in the relevant outlets. That right there kills the idea, far as I can see.

What I can also see, and what you should be able to see, is that Kevin MacDonald actually cares, deeply, about his cavalier treatment at the hands of John Derbyshire, a race-mixing conservative alien who admits he's scared shitless of the jews who sign his paychecks. He has actually written that, and practically in those very same words. Derbyshire may be scared of jews, but he's not scared in the least of shitting on MacDonald. No repercussions there. Yet MacDonald is concerned about how to curry favor with this Chinese-marrying, miscegenating cunt, per the quotation provided by Parker.

I will repeat this so the full measure of it sinks in. A guy who claims he wants to lead the way to save the White race has in the front of his mind the importance of currying the favor of a neocon race-mixer.

If this isn't conservatism, what the hell is it?

How is KM ever going to influence Derbyshire? Buying him? KM hasn't the pockets. Persuading him? What? That his jew bosses are a genocidal thread to his half-chink children?

For your Overton window theory to work in practice, you're going to have to move up the food chain through neocon publications all the way along. Why are they going to promote your ideas when they are owned by and staffed by only two kinds of people: jews and those afraid of them. It just doesn't make any sense. The commies could do it because their relatives owned all the media. And owned the retail companies that advertised in the media. They had a natural network in place. Do you really think you're going to turn gentiles like Derbyshire to boost and borrow your memes, when they've already bought in to the extent of marrying outside the race, and in any case their paycheck depends on supporting the anti-White status quo?

I appreciate your first-rodeo enthusiasm, your energy, but I don't see that KM's deal is anything other than the same old Sam Francis paleocon cowpath. I'm sure it will raise some donor money, and produce some good essays, but I sure don't see any political change coming from it.
 
Old December 17th, 2009 #69
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Originally Posted by Igor Alexander View Post
"Leonine carriage." You know, dictionary.com ought to be paying you a salary for all the hits you've sent them from me.
I despise flattery. You can't tell me in a thousand years you didn't know leonine or carriage.

Yes, when I was a teen, I wanted to know more words than anybody. Kind of like the cow at the top of the hill who wanted to run down and fuck 'em all. Except cows have no cocks. So it must have been a bull. Not a red bull. A white bull. And a young bull.

Eventually I learned its not the size of your dic, it's how you swing it.
 
Old December 17th, 2009 #70
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Originally Posted by Igor Alexander View Post
"Leonine carriage." You know, dictionary.com ought to be paying you a salary for all the hits you've sent them from me.
hey nuthanger, go post something on my exterminate the queers thread.
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Old December 17th, 2009 #71
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I follow Mencken - play you should with words, but always with rules. The words have meaning. If you look up any word he uses you don't know, you find he used it correctly, and to express a shade, or because he needed its sounds as opposed to synonym's sounds. At best, writing is not only musical, it is better than music, in the sense a female orgasm is better than male, because if not quite as high a top peak, a higher and sustainabler average.
 
Old December 17th, 2009 #72
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To my knowledge, the APA doesn't consider homosexuality a form of mental perversion.
It used to, until said perverts starting using the tactics Linder advocates we use against our enemies on the APA.
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Old December 17th, 2009 #73
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
I despise flattery.
Was I flattering you?

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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
You can't tell me in a thousand years you didn't know leonine or carriage.
Carriage I could have inferred from the context; leonine I didn't know, though now that I do, I suppose it's fairly obvious.

And yes, you deliberately use words that are not in common use and which constantly have me reaching for the dictionary. Not a compliment, just an observation.
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Old December 17th, 2009 #74
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Originally Posted by Hunter Wallace View Post
We're trying to reach a narrow audience: intelligent, well educated, openminded middle class White professionals. These are people with money and influence. Taking a Jerry Falwell position on homosexuality is an albatross in trying to reach this demographic. It is hard enough already to reach them with our positions on race and Jews.
Woaa, slow down... since when is tolerance for queer buttsex a middle class value? You think these white professionals you're targeting want their kids being indoctrinated by militant faggots at the elementary school level any more than Bible-thumpers do? The people whom you refer to as "open minded" are liberals, and there is no way you're going to convert true liberals to our way of thinking on race and the JQ regardless of what your position is on homosexuality.
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Old December 17th, 2009 #75
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Originally Posted by Alex Linder View Post
That's what those who can't point to any real influence always say. Sam Francis made the same empty claim for years. It's just a pose to impress supporters.
If I really wanted to, I could spill the beans. You don't know a fraction of what goes on offline. We do have people engaged in real world activism. In contrast, you talk about doing it. Greg Johnson is working with people right now who have been real world activists for quite some time. I have them on speed dial.

Quote:
Paleocon Francis didn't influence the power elite, the power elite kicked his ass. Causing him to break down blubbering about how we WN outsiders didn't support him but jews did! My term faileocon has already, in its short life, had more real influence on politics than SF's entire career.
In the 1990's, Sam Francis had Pat Buchanan's ear. In 1992 and 1996, Buchanan was a serious contender for the Republican nomination. Buchanan still commanded a huge base within the GOP at the time. Francis remained an influential figure within the conservative movement until his death. His influence continued to extend far into the political mainstream. While he lost his job at The Washingon Times, other conservative media outlets continued to publish him.

Quote:
KM has value when he's digging up quotations from jews. Less value when he's analyzing jewish strategy. And no value when he moves into activism down the same path as every other right-winger since WWII.
1.) MacDonald and others have observed that Jews have a certain harmony amongst themselves. They don't wail into each other like we see here.

2.) What is your strategy?

- Marginalize yourself within the movement. Check.
- Make yourself radioactive by advocating genocide. Check.
- Abandon what you are actually good at (writing). Check.
- Create as much division within the movement as possible. Check.

Quote:
Kevin MacDonald is a conservative. I wonder how long it will take you to grasp this. You seem to think that placing money and status ahead of racial politics = effective radicalism, but I suggest it is just more of the same old failed conservatism. It may raise money from donors, as conservative Vdare has done, but it won't produce the change we seek.
You would have us abandon civility, decency, propriety, manners, and morality. With this grand strategy of yours, who do you expect to reach? Honestly, who is going to listen to someone who advocates murdering little girls because they are Jewish? No one but kooks, sociopaths, and mental defectives.

Quote:
The premise of your lengthy responses on earlier posts in this thread, which I just read and will respond to later, is that there's a way to work the situation. It is clear you believe this Overton process will somehow get our ideas into the mainstream.
Yes, I do.

When you advocate genocide, I think you make Kevin MacDonald look more reasonable. Your position is unthinkable. By comparison, MacDonald merely sounds radical.

Quote:
It's dim to me how this is to be achieved, though - in practice, if not in theory.
Simple. We create discursive spaces that stretch from the margins to the mainstream. These are conduits that enable sympathizers to find White Nationalism. We have sympathizers in key positions along this ladder who draw attention to a more radical position.

Quote:
The fundamental problem here, which you don't seem to realize, nor does MacDonald, is that you don't have anybody sympathetic to you who owns anything substantial.
This is false. I know this for a fact.

Quote:
Where has the exact same approach gotten Jared Taylor in ten years? I went over there for the first time in a long time to read the responses to your article he printed. It appears to me that AmRen has already reached the point of diminishing returns. Which makes sense. It's just gerbil-wheel. Whine about black crime, but never do anything about it, not even discuss the "why." And you're defending this guy while claiming you're not conservative. I don't understand that. I don't think it meets the test of simple logic.
Amren is an excellent example. Taylor has created a discursive space that is less radical than my own. He teaches people the basics of racial consciousness. That's his assignment. This is the essential precondition of getting them to care about other more radical issues. We need a chain of these spaces that are progressively more moderate and stretch into the mainstream.

Quote:
But to get back on track, I don't see how your Overton theory can work in practice because, unlike the communist parallel you draw, you and I and KM and Johnson - we don't have sympathetic relatives owning/advertising in the relevant outlets. That right there kills the idea, far as I can see.
I would attribute that to the stupidity and individualism that prevails on the Right. This is a serious obstacle, but a tractable one.

Quote:
What I can also see, and what you should be able to see, is that Kevin MacDonald actually cares, deeply, about his cavalier treatment at the hands of John Derbyshire, a race-mixing conservative alien who admits he's scared shitless of the jews who sign his paychecks. He has actually written that, and practically in those very same words. Derbyshire may be scared of jews, but he's not scared in the least of shitting on MacDonald. No repercussions there. Yet MacDonald is concerned about how to curry favor with this Chinese-marrying, miscegenating cunt, per the quotation provided by Parker.
Derbyshire gave publicity to MacDonald's work. That is far more important than his review. It created a path from conservatism to White Nationalism that sympathizers can travel down.

Quote:
I will repeat this so the full measure of it sinks in. A guy who claims he wants to lead the way to save the White race has in the front of his mind the importance of currying the favor of a neocon race-mixer.
Derbyshire can be useful to us.

Quote:
If this isn't conservatism, what the hell is it?
What is your strategy? How do you plan to get publicity for VNN? In my review, I mentioned a whole host of names, including your own. I got the name "Alex Linder" and "Goyfire" and "VNN" all mentioned ... at Amren. That puts you a Google click away from getting discovered by Amren readers. I created a path from Amren to VNN.

Quote:
How is KM ever going to influence Derbyshire? Buying him? KM hasn't the pockets. Persuading him? What? That his jew bosses are a genocidal thread to his half-chink children?
Derbyshire has drawn attention to HBD and MacDonald's work within the mainstream. Would you prefer he had not?

Quote:
For your Overton window theory to work in practice, you're going to have to move up the food chain through neocon publications all the way along. Why are they going to promote your ideas when they are owned by and staffed by only two kinds of people: jews and those afraid of them.
They don't have to promote our ideas. If they attack us, they give us free publicity. The biggest obstacle in our way is the "dynamic silence" policy that the MSM uses to keep us isolated on the fringe.

Quote:
It just doesn't make any sense. The commies could do it because their relatives owned all the media. And owned the retail companies that advertised in the media. They had a natural network in place. Do you really think you're going to turn gentiles like Derbyshire to boost and borrow your memes, when they've already bought in to the extent of marrying outside the race, and in any case their paycheck depends on supporting the anti-White status quo?
Derbyshire and Buchanan spread out memes inside the conservative mainstream all the time. Sailer has a huge following in the mainstream. Don't think that so called "respectable conservatives" aren't reading our material.

Quote:
I appreciate your first-rodeo enthusiasm, your energy, but I don't see that KM's deal is anything other than the same old Sam Francis paleocon cowpath. I'm sure it will raise some donor money, and produce some good essays, but I sure don't see any political change coming from it.
Speaking of donor money, and your lack of concern for it, maybe you can explain to everyone what happened to Dietrich.
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Old December 17th, 2009 #76
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hey nuthanger, go post something on my exterminate the queers thread.
A queer calling me a nuthanger. This is going to be a long day.
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Old December 17th, 2009 #77
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Woaa, slow down... since when is tolerance for queer buttsex a middle class value? You think these white professionals you're targeting want their kids being indoctrinated by militant faggots at the elementary school level any more than Bible-thumpers do?
Personally, I don't know anyone who is above average intelligence, college educated, and an upper middle class White professional that has the Bible thumping Fred Phelps position on homosexuality. It is hard enough to get these people to discuss race and Jews. Ranting about homosexuals is probably the surest way to get labeled and dismissed as just another rightwing conservative bigot.

Quote:
The people whom you refer to as "open minded" are liberals, and there is no way you're going to convert true liberals to our way of thinking on race and the JQ regardless of what your position is on homosexuality.
It is a myth that racialists hatch out of the conservative right, but not the progressive left.
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Old December 17th, 2009 #78
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I enjoyed hearing Alex, and especially his use of language. 'To insinuate with the elite', esp. describing Francis as making 'young fogeys.'

I met Sam Francis when I went to a CCC dinner. I liked him, but I suspected I was out of place. The group was mostly men in suits, very stuffed shirt types, and since I wasn't a lawyer or businessman I felt I didn't count. But there were ordinary people who were much easier to talk with and relate to.

When I mentioned the NA to Francis and William Pierce, he claimed he had never heard of either, which struck me as remarkable. Then an older man in a suit came up with a manila folder 'with information that Mr. Francis MUST know,' and my three minutes were up.

Some woman demanded Francis talk about Jews controlling America. He froze and wouldn't reply. Really, just shut down. She was a bit drunk, and was escorted out. Either for the Jew bit, or maybe she was a provacateur.

I went to some CCC groups, but it seems to be the gerbil in the cage mentality spoken of. It was all immigration, Confederate flag...but no one went on to the next level. I also went to NA meetings, and the leader there was energetic, clever, and I enjoyed his company, but I felt the NA didn't want another older white guy...they want young guys with families.

In both cases Frank Weltner was in these groups, and I knew him as articulate and a good organizer.

I do want to see us get out of the internet and do more face to face organizing, but right now it seems tough. I also agree too many whites still see the GOP as some kind of hope. You hear all the talk 'come next election, we'll get the country back, you'll see, and then, boy-oh-boy...REAL CONSERVATISM!'

I like Gile's program, and really enjoy Alex. I think his idea of a homeschoo curriculum makes sense.

The one thing in our favor is now, the government really isagainst whites. They make no bones about it, and Obama and his handlers are incompetant in covering it up. People, I think are wising up.

But Sarah Palin ain't wisdom.
 
Old December 17th, 2009 #79
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For all their merry rainbows and clever euphemisms like "gay," the faggots have no way to defend themselves from someone graphically pointing out the physical reality of what it is they actually do, of what it actually, literally means to be a homosexual. It's their Achilles' heel.

I have not met a single queer who could offer an intelligent counterargument to the CDCs statistics concerning queers and disease. All he can do is call me a "homophobe" and try to shut down the debate, much like the kikesters with their "anti-Semite" smear.

The queers are so used to dealing with looney, ineffectual conservative Bible-thumpers that they have no recourse when someone confronts them with rational, fact-based (rather than religious) arguments.
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Old December 17th, 2009 #80
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For all their merry rainbows and clever euphemisms like "gay," the faggots have no way to defend themselves from someone graphically pointing out the physical reality of what it is they actually do, of what it actually, literally means to be a homosexual. It's their Achilles' heel.

I have not met a single queer who could offer an intelligent counterargument to the CDCs statistics concerning queers and disease. All he can do is call me a "homophobe" and try to shut down the debate, much like the kikesters with their "anti-Semite" smear.

The queers are so used to dealing with looney, ineffectual conservative Bible-thumpers that they have no recourse when someone confronts them with rational, fact-based (rather than religious) arguments.
what does it actually, literally mean to be a homosexual?

btw, let's take this to the exterminaate the queers thread.
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