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September 21st, 2009 | #81 | |
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Occidental Dissent "A functioning police state needs no police." —William Borroughs |
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September 21st, 2009 | #82 | |
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The story is, I worked with him for about 6 weeks. For about the first week he kept a relative open mind to the facts I presented to him, absorbing stuff he never heard before, and was busy verying for himself. By the 2nd week his defenses were up. By the 3rd week his suspicions were up about my personal motives – and his fact checking stopped completely. After that his mind was shut to anything I had to say. Mind you he still fully considered himself a libertarian. The facts only momentarily got in the way of his theories. |
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September 21st, 2009 | #83 | ||||||||||
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It is unarguable that private owners take care of property better than the government because they have a stake in it. The Soviet Union destroyed an entire, giant sea! How many species were wiped out? I don't know. I'm sure many kinds of fish were adversely affected.
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One type of pigeon is no longer with us? It is virtually guaranteed that private efforts will lead to the ability to clone this pigeon in the future if they haven't already. Why would we want to, though? Is there something remarkable about this pigeon we can't find in the millions of useless ones polluting every major city? Quote:
If the buffalo being shot in the early days were on privately owned land, rather than public land, the shooters would not have had the right to shoot them - correct? So, again, public ownership is not the solution, it is the problem. More often than not. Owners take care of things - slaves, rivers, private land, animals. Renters do not. Public schools, public parks, public toilets - are any of these as nice as private schools, private parks, private toilets? There's a principle at work. Quote:
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The fallacy here is that you've got good-guy environmentalists on one hand and bad-guy hunters. No. Hunters are the good guys. Hunters are the environmetnalists. All the early WASPs concerned with wildlife preservation were hunters, big-time hunters, especially Roosevelt, who never stopped shooting until he ran out of ammunition. Quote:
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Here in Missouri, I follow wildlife management closely because the dept has a free magazine (free meaning our taxes pay for it) and I've been to the state nursery and know a lot about how it goes about "helping" private landowners. Missouri is supposedly about as good as this stuff gets. For government, it's not as bad as we usually find. That is, altho the mag is loaded with diversity bs, it's pretty clear that the everyday works is 99% non-jew white men. This stuff is much better and more controllable on the state level than the national, as in everything. Mo plans are funded by a small tax and by monies received from hunters and fishermen. It seems to work fairly well. But the fact is, half the people doing the real work are still private people engaged in cleaning up streams and such. The real guarantee that you keep land solid and groovy is that the vast, overwhelming bulk of it is in White private landowner hands. The minute that changes, you get the USSR, which created the worst environmental catastrophes ever seen on earth, whether you're talking about nasty brown-coal smog (which I experienced first-lung in East Germany in 1987 - worse by far than even smog in L.A. in the 1970s), irradiation around Chernobyl, or the intentionally dried up Aral Sea. In the U.S. we've gotten lucky and only had the feds burn down Yellowstone on some wacko theory. The feds as land managers are awful, even in America. You've got the army corps of engineers murdering rivers by straightening them, by building incompetent dikes (New Orleans) and telling people back in the thirties to prevent erosion by throwing all their old junk and appliances into ditches (you can still see the effects of this asinine, later-reversed policy) all over Missouri. The government is as awful at wildlife and property management as it is at everything else. Look around. Especially in this day and age, private breeders are the ones truly preserving wildlife - often enough they are creating new forms and new subspecies. |
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September 21st, 2009 | #84 | |
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September 21st, 2009 | #85 | |
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September 21st, 2009 | #86 |
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There's also no real accounting for the negatives of wildlife management. Here's one in Missouri:
Missouri's Otter Disaster! By Hank Reifeus, October 1999 Like a lot of us, Buford and Wilma Urban of Houston, Mo. worked hard to obtain their dream of a piece of Ozark land to retire. They found a beautiful spot on Arthur Creek; a tributary of the Big Piney. Buford fished in the creek. He also built a pond and stocked it with 800 catfish. Two years ago, river otters, stocked by the Missouri Department of Conservation (MDC), moved up Arthur Creek and over the winter decimated the catfish in their pond. The otters also cleaned out the creek behind their house. I visited these people on an MDC sponsored fieldtrip and saw the pictures documenting the damage. Three years ago Debo McKinney, a land owner and fisherman inTexas County, noticed a decline in the fishing quality in many of his favorite streams. He saw otters killing and eating fish. He also found large piles of scales from this activity. He has been fishing these streams all his life. He believes the decline in fishing quality is caused by the reintroduction of otters by the MDC. These are not isolated incidents. Land owners and fishermen across the Ozarks are reporting fish losses due to otter predation. What's going on? The answer lies in irresponsible policy decisions and incompetent biological practices done by the MDC. These policies have threatened our Ozark fishing heritage in our streams and lakes. This all began in 1982 when the MDC started a program of reintroducing river otters into the Ozarks. A total of 845 otters were released in 43 areas. Stocking ended in 1992. Since then, the otter population has exploded. A recent study done by the University of Missouri shows that by the spring of next year there will be 18,000 otters in our Ozark streams and the population will continue to grow rapidly and expand its range. This animal population has exploded because it was introduced into a totally unnatural habitat. The present Ozarks are nothing like the Ozarks of 100 years ago when these animals existed here naturally. Now there are thousands of fish filled ponds like Bufords that provide an unnatural food source to allow for the otters population explosion. MDC studies show that 90% of adults are breeding and they have 3 to 4 pups per litter. This is an abnormal and unheard of reproduction rate. The streams themselves are entirely different because of excessive past and present timber harvests, bad land practices, road construction, etc. Because of this, our streams have become gravel choked. The loss of the natural deep holes in the streams has radically changed the habitat. With less places to hide the fish become highly susceptible to predation by otters. Yet knowing this, the MDC still went ahead with reintroduction. That biologically arrogant, indefensible decision is the cause of this catastrophe. The otters diet consists of crayfish and fish. MDC data shows that during the warm months crayfish equal 60% of their diet and fish 30%. In cold months when crayfish go dormant fish become 60-70% of their main diet. When the bass, suckers, catfish and trout school up in the few holes during the cold months they become highly vulnerable to otter predation. A recent study done by the MDC shows the effects of this predation on bass and sunfish. The ages and percentage of the fish killed are as follows, 40% 1-3 years old, 40% 4-6 years old, 20% 7 years and older. Now I don't imagine that there are many 4 years and older sunfish out there, so almost 60% of these fish are probably bass. A 4-6 year old bass is 12 to 18 inches long and a seven year bass is a trophy. These are the quality fish in our streams that the otters are killing. This is an unprecedented disaster in the making for all Ozark anglers. Also when these fish spawn, they become highly susceptible to harassment by otters. They are either killed or kept from completing a successful spawn. The MDC's authority on otter behavior was asked if otters would harass fish on the spawning beds. He stated that otters are animals of opportunity and would definitely attack fish on spawning beds. So the fish are not only killed and eaten but their food base is also eaten out from underneath them and then they are prevented from obtaining a successful spawn. A triple whammy! These animals pose a tremendous threat to our fishing throughout the Ozarks. You would expect the MDC Fisheries Division to do a careful and detailed food and habitat study before introducing this large, prolific, and voracious fish killing animal into our Ozark streams. Wrong! Not one study was done before reintroduction. Out of state data from Louisiana was used. A state whose water and habitat is nothing like our free flowing Ozark streams. The MDC is now half way through a four year study, to the end of 2001, to determine what otters eat. A study that should have been done before introducing otters into your Ozark streams. Let me give you a quote from an MDC publication, 'Missouri River Otter Update' that was handed out at the 'Otter Advisory Committee' meeting held in Houston Mo. on 6/19/99. An MDC spokesman states, "Knowledge of otter food habits is one of the essential elements missing from our current understanding of otter biology in Missouri this study is obviously a first step and a basic need." Their first step should be to gain control of this animal and the basic need must be to protect our Ozark sportfishing heritage. The MDC will put its spin on all this like any other government bureaucracy itself. A bureaucracy always fears accountability. MDC apologists will scream for loyalty and to trust the professional 'experts'. I happen to believe that the thoughtful and reasoned questioning of poor policy and actions is much more commendable than blind faith. The days of 'Trust me, I'm the Expert' ended with Vietnam. No excuses or rationalization will change the cold hard facts. I know that the MDC does good work and I understand this problem did not begin with the present administration, but this disaster is happening on their watch. If the MDC claims the successes of past administrations, they must also accept responsibility for their failures and mistakes and move to correct them. The MDC has the right and the obligation to the landowners and sportsmen of this state to quickly correct this problem. This animal was introduced into a completely unnatural habitat. The animal is an out of control exotic species. The MDC has every legal and biological right to vigorously control it. Imagine the MDC reintroducing cougar and wolves. Then when these animals start decimating the deer and turkey in the state, the MDC saying that they need to do a four year study to determine what the wolves and cougars eat, before they act on the problem. Deer and turkey hunters would never accept this. They would demand that the problem be fixed and fixed now! Fishermen and landowners throughout the Ozarks must demand no less. You must hold the MDC accountable for this disaster. Now that you know the problem, what can you the Ozark sportsman and landowner do? First you must tell the MDC to take action against this animal before the end of the 2001 study. Take action before the animal becomes more firmly entrenched and your fishing is degraded even more. If they can't figure out what they're eating by now, tell them to ask Debo and Buford. The MDC has already moved to control otters that threaten their fishery. An MDC fisheries supervisor acknowledged that the state has removed otters that were threatening their hatcheries. They need to move just as quickly to protect your fishery. Tell them you don't believe that sport trappers alone, even with an extended season, will be able to control this animal. They may have to bring in professional animal control agents to work with local trappers. Yes it will cost money but look at the alternative. And they have money. The MDC is the second highest funded state conservation organization in the country. California is first. Tell them to take the physicians oath, "Above all do no harm." and quit playing around with exotic species. When the Ozarks return to their original glory, then they can reintroduce species. But until then, tell them to get back to basics; habitat improvement and meaningful enforcement. But to tell them all this you must have a voice. Publications like this and groups like the Mo. Smallmouth Alliance, www.smallmouth.org allow you to be heard. But to be heard you must use that voice. You can have an immediate impact on this problem but only if you write and demand action. You should be enraged by this. Get mad. Speak up! If we don't hold this taxpayer funded department accountable for this disaster and demand action, we have lost all credibility as true sportsmen who care about the future and restoring our Ozark fishing heritage. Write MDC Director Conley now! Jerry Conley, Director Missouri Department of conservation P.O.Box 180 Jefferson City Mo. 65102 E-mail: [email protected] -- http://www.smallmouth.org/MissouriOtters.html |
September 21st, 2009 | #87 |
Administrator
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There's also no real accounting for the negatives of wildlife management. Here's one in Missouri:
Missouri's Otter Disaster! By Hank Reifeus, October 1999 Like a lot of us, Buford and Wilma Urban of Houston, Mo. worked hard to obtain their dream of a piece of Ozark land to retire. They found a beautiful spot on Arthur Creek; a tributary of the Big Piney. Buford fished in the creek. He also built a pond and stocked it with 800 catfish. Two years ago, river otters, stocked by the Missouri Department of Conservation (MDC), moved up Arthur Creek and over the winter decimated the catfish in their pond. The otters also cleaned out the creek behind their house. I visited these people on an MDC sponsored fieldtrip and saw the pictures documenting the damage. Three years ago Debo McKinney, a land owner and fisherman inTexas County, noticed a decline in the fishing quality in many of his favorite streams. He saw otters killing and eating fish. He also found large piles of scales from this activity. He has been fishing these streams all his life. He believes the decline in fishing quality is caused by the reintroduction of otters by the MDC. These are not isolated incidents. Land owners and fishermen across the Ozarks are reporting fish losses due to otter predation. What's going on? The answer lies in irresponsible policy decisions and incompetent biological practices done by the MDC. These policies have threatened our Ozark fishing heritage in our streams and lakes. This all began in 1982 when the MDC started a program of reintroducing river otters into the Ozarks. A total of 845 otters were released in 43 areas. Stocking ended in 1992. Since then, the otter population has exploded. A recent study done by the University of Missouri shows that by the spring of next year there will be 18,000 otters in our Ozark streams and the population will continue to grow rapidly and expand its range. This animal population has exploded because it was introduced into a totally unnatural habitat. The present Ozarks are nothing like the Ozarks of 100 years ago when these animals existed here naturally. Now there are thousands of fish filled ponds like Bufords that provide an unnatural food source to allow for the otters population explosion. MDC studies show that 90% of adults are breeding and they have 3 to 4 pups per litter. This is an abnormal and unheard of reproduction rate. The streams themselves are entirely different because of excessive past and present timber harvests, bad land practices, road construction, etc. Because of this, our streams have become gravel choked. The loss of the natural deep holes in the streams has radically changed the habitat. With less places to hide the fish become highly susceptible to predation by otters. Yet knowing this, the MDC still went ahead with reintroduction. That biologically arrogant, indefensible decision is the cause of this catastrophe. The otters diet consists of crayfish and fish. MDC data shows that during the warm months crayfish equal 60% of their diet and fish 30%. In cold months when crayfish go dormant fish become 60-70% of their main diet. When the bass, suckers, catfish and trout school up in the few holes during the cold months they become highly vulnerable to otter predation. A recent study done by the MDC shows the effects of this predation on bass and sunfish. The ages and percentage of the fish killed are as follows, 40% 1-3 years old, 40% 4-6 years old, 20% 7 years and older. Now I don't imagine that there are many 4 years and older sunfish out there, so almost 60% of these fish are probably bass. A 4-6 year old bass is 12 to 18 inches long and a seven year bass is a trophy. These are the quality fish in our streams that the otters are killing. This is an unprecedented disaster in the making for all Ozark anglers. Also when these fish spawn, they become highly susceptible to harassment by otters. They are either killed or kept from completing a successful spawn. The MDC's authority on otter behavior was asked if otters would harass fish on the spawning beds. He stated that otters are animals of opportunity and would definitely attack fish on spawning beds. So the fish are not only killed and eaten but their food base is also eaten out from underneath them and then they are prevented from obtaining a successful spawn. A triple whammy! These animals pose a tremendous threat to our fishing throughout the Ozarks. You would expect the MDC Fisheries Division to do a careful and detailed food and habitat study before introducing this large, prolific, and voracious fish killing animal into our Ozark streams. Wrong! Not one study was done before reintroduction. Out of state data from Louisiana was used. A state whose water and habitat is nothing like our free flowing Ozark streams. The MDC is now half way through a four year study, to the end of 2001, to determine what otters eat. A study that should have been done before introducing otters into your Ozark streams. Let me give you a quote from an MDC publication, 'Missouri River Otter Update' that was handed out at the 'Otter Advisory Committee' meeting held in Houston Mo. on 6/19/99. An MDC spokesman states, "Knowledge of otter food habits is one of the essential elements missing from our current understanding of otter biology in Missouri this study is obviously a first step and a basic need." Their first step should be to gain control of this animal and the basic need must be to protect our Ozark sportfishing heritage. The MDC will put its spin on all this like any other government bureaucracy itself. A bureaucracy always fears accountability. MDC apologists will scream for loyalty and to trust the professional 'experts'. I happen to believe that the thoughtful and reasoned questioning of poor policy and actions is much more commendable than blind faith. The days of 'Trust me, I'm the Expert' ended with Vietnam. No excuses or rationalization will change the cold hard facts. I know that the MDC does good work and I understand this problem did not begin with the present administration, but this disaster is happening on their watch. If the MDC claims the successes of past administrations, they must also accept responsibility for their failures and mistakes and move to correct them. The MDC has the right and the obligation to the landowners and sportsmen of this state to quickly correct this problem. This animal was introduced into a completely unnatural habitat. The animal is an out of control exotic species. The MDC has every legal and biological right to vigorously control it. Imagine the MDC reintroducing cougar and wolves. Then when these animals start decimating the deer and turkey in the state, the MDC saying that they need to do a four year study to determine what the wolves and cougars eat, before they act on the problem. Deer and turkey hunters would never accept this. They would demand that the problem be fixed and fixed now! Fishermen and landowners throughout the Ozarks must demand no less. You must hold the MDC accountable for this disaster. Now that you know the problem, what can you the Ozark sportsman and landowner do? First you must tell the MDC to take action against this animal before the end of the 2001 study. Take action before the animal becomes more firmly entrenched and your fishing is degraded even more. If they can't figure out what they're eating by now, tell them to ask Debo and Buford. The MDC has already moved to control otters that threaten their fishery. An MDC fisheries supervisor acknowledged that the state has removed otters that were threatening their hatcheries. They need to move just as quickly to protect your fishery. Tell them you don't believe that sport trappers alone, even with an extended season, will be able to control this animal. They may have to bring in professional animal control agents to work with local trappers. Yes it will cost money but look at the alternative. And they have money. The MDC is the second highest funded state conservation organization in the country. California is first. Tell them to take the physicians oath, "Above all do no harm." and quit playing around with exotic species. When the Ozarks return to their original glory, then they can reintroduce species. But until then, tell them to get back to basics; habitat improvement and meaningful enforcement. But to tell them all this you must have a voice. Publications like this and groups like the Mo. Smallmouth Alliance, www.smallmouth.org allow you to be heard. But to be heard you must use that voice. You can have an immediate impact on this problem but only if you write and demand action. You should be enraged by this. Get mad. Speak up! If we don't hold this taxpayer funded department accountable for this disaster and demand action, we have lost all credibility as true sportsmen who care about the future and restoring our Ozark fishing heritage. Write MDC Director Conley now! Jerry Conley, Director Missouri Department of conservation P.O.Box 180 Jefferson City Mo. 65102 E-mail: [email protected] -- http://www.smallmouth.org/MissouriOtters.html |
September 21st, 2009 | #88 |
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Private owners can only mess up their own land. Government workers can mess up everybody's land, and they can do it with no real repercussions. In the morning they'll still have a job, a paycheck, and a fawning press.
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September 21st, 2009 | #89 | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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[quote]It is the government that cares more about a stupid invading mussel than invading Mexican, and a golden carp more than a Caucasian. No, it is the people who control the government; the ones who were brought here to toil as a cheap labor force in the late nineteenth/early twentieth centuries. Quote:
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Occidental Dissent "A functioning police state needs no police." —William Borroughs |
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September 21st, 2009 | #90 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Your view is that private people will destroy everything unless mommy and daddy government smack them on the wrist and restrain them. That's not how it is. The private landowner has real love for his land, and he puts a lot more $$$ and effort into it than the state does. Quote:
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Man, have some trust in White men. They don't want to kill everything. Those crazy hunters are Hollywood bullshit more than anything, exactly the same as the Deliverance stereotype. The hunters are the guys who are taxed to pay for all this stuff, but they would care for the land anyway. I'm not saying the STATE (as opposed to federal) management of wildlife is horrible and the worst thing imaginable; it seems to work fairly well in Missouri at least, I'm saying that given what we know about government's failure in every area, and its at best mixed record in land management, and the fact that private owners love and nuture their land, almost all of them, we should listen with open mind to serious intellectuals offering different ways of arriving at the same desirable destination. No one wants species to go extinct. Quote:
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I have given you many good examples of government failing in this particular regard, and the examples can be multiplied easily. So let's not have a hasty ideological reaction when a libertarian says he can see a better way to combine property ownership and wildlife protection. Quote:
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Last edited by Alex Linder; September 21st, 2009 at 08:00 PM. |
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September 21st, 2009 | #91 |
Banned
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Location: Southeast Texas
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The principle of "animal" is everywhere, now.
The particular specific specie of animals are many. Some come and go. In the passing of time, they fade in and fade out, as it were. But, subjectively speaking, the principle of "animal" is always here. Cease fretting over the loss of this specie or that specie. Now, enjoy a nice roasted Cornish hen. While they are still here. |
September 21st, 2009 | #92 | |
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Posts: 7,046
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"Guess who took it away and destroyed it?" HINT: Niggers you moron. I thought you had reached the lunatic limit when you said "Hitler was a dictator", even most pinkos know that's a completely asinine statement. Dictatorships don't exist, meritocracies with elected leaders do. You quite obviously need to go back to selling vacuums or whatever it is you did for a living , building a government isn't your thing , you approach it in too much the same slimy manner . Actually after reading some of your little "Linderisms" and monologues I usually want to take a shower, thank you dear Mister Linder for keeping me squeaky clean. Actually now that I am done writing this I am going to go step in for a quick rinse. |
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September 21st, 2009 | #93 | |
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I was going to respond to you but...there's nothing to respond to, just stupid insults. Read the War on the West if you want stories about whites using the government to steal property from whites in the name of land management or animal preservation. |
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September 21st, 2009 | #94 | |||||
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What you're describing there, isn't National Socialism, Linder...its your Anarchy based Oligarchy. Quote:
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Or "it's better than nothing", "You should be thankful you have a roof over your head". Or "you could easily survive on 2000 rand a month" when he complains that his 50 K a month doesn't suffice for himself. That you're one of these old senile fools is evident in the fact that you state quite arrogantly that "providing them with a job is suddenly exploiting them", but Government taking 50% of your pay is just "helping them". I.e. If you're underpaid be pissed at the Government for stealing 50% of the peanuts I give you, not me. And if we suddenly follow your route, then the inevitable "We have to ensure the maintenance of the roads, education systems, and general infrastructure" excuses, as to why you're paying people mediocre salaries. Your "system" is based entirely on catering for the wealthy, and not the mean, it is inevitable that it would come under pressure to succumb, that is when your Utopia Oligarchy-come-Anarchy will turn into Tyranny to keep the status quo. Quote:
He's just a fat old wash out exploiting the emotions and desires of the Racially conscious to live a life of luxury. He's the businessman you want running the country. |
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September 21st, 2009 | #95 | |
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They didn't call him Der Führer for nuttin', dummy. |
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September 21st, 2009 | #96 | |||
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Oh yeah, and Steve B (I don't want to bother quoting you ), "The Leader" and "The Dictator" are two different things. I know that learning new languages isn't popular around your parts (Or even learning proper English) but at least try a little before attempting to impress me , mkay? |
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September 21st, 2009 | #97 | |
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September 21st, 2009 | #98 | |
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Should Linder's ideal come to fruition even he would have to enforce certain regulations in order to remove potential threats to his relatively young "stateless State". Shall we call him a dictator then? I don't really care much about the fact that National Socialist Germany put a muzzle on the Commies, nor do I care much about the fact that they ostracized what was a mainly Jewish Business sector that actively worked and funded toward the subversion of the German State and the German Folk. Anybody else here would do precisely the same. Including in Alex' la la land, the removal of Business owners that actively fund toward the establishment of a Government. |
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September 21st, 2009 | #99 |
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Yeah, no kidding...there's absolutely no way that Don Black, or David Duke would ever be "leadership material", perhaps if the Jew is tired of fucking us up they'll give the reigns over to one of the clowns as a final coup de grace.
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September 21st, 2009 | #100 |
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So you're saying he didn't? Forget about the meaning of "Fuehrer" for a moment and concentrate on convincing me Hitler didn't have unlimited authority over the German people?
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jew talk, jew von mises, liberaltarianism, libertarianism is jewish, libertarianism is white, state withers away |
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