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Old November 2nd, 2020 #41
Lutador Branco
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I liked the book I shared here on the thread, The Aryan Ancestry of Jesus, because several points of it interest me a lot, and it is an honest work.


https://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/ocj/vol1909/iss4/1/

https://www.ancient.eu/books/1656907283/



And I was also interested in the excellent text of the link shared by Comrade Crowe, and I also want to highlight this excerpt:


https://www.travelujah.com/stories/w...ans-days-jesus

"Whether it had been Jewish migrants from Judea or a Galilean peasantry forcibly converted to Judaism that ultimately became the “Galileans” of Jesus’ day, one thing seems reasonably clear: they were considered different in many respects from Jews living farther to the south, closer to Jerusalem. L. Michael White, Professor of Classics abd Director of the Religious Studies Program University of Texas at Austin ir t travelujah 20 l as2 o 1 a 0060816104,

The term Galilean seems to have been used in a variety of ways in this period. To some, it just mean an outsider, or someone who’s not really an old Jew of the traditional sort. Precisely because the Galilee had traditionally been Jewish at the time of the Maccabean Revolt a hundred or 150 years before Jesus."

Last edited by Lutador Branco; November 3rd, 2020 at 10:51 AM.
 
Old November 2nd, 2020 #42
Crowe
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The differences were mostly social and class differences, such as the Galileans were viewed by the elite in Jerusalem as being unsophisticated peasants. No evidence to really suggest they were hugely racially distinct.

Until someone takes a bunch of skulls from Galilee during that time period and analyzes them and does facial recognition on a large quantity, we won't get a consensus on what they looked like "broadly". But what has been found isn't looking good for the Aryan hypothesis.

Since this is mostly speculation, anyway, I'm gonna speculate on another point. Jews have control over the whole region, and you figure someone has been looking into this but data on stuff like this seems surprisingly guarded. If the samples taken were anything close to what the jews in Israel look like currently, we would have heard about it a million times already, and they'd be using it to support their agenda. I suspect the ancient Israelites are closer to Arabs, or possibly the very Palestinians they're busy murdering, and they're trying to hide it.

Lutador Branco questions the picture I posted as being from a leftist source. They asked someone from Israel for skulls, they got one, did a reconstruction on it, and the face looks like a border jumper who just made their way into Texas. 1 skull, no big deal, people can say that's just one, plausible deniability that it's a fluke, but I say they should facially reconstruct all of them they have and share the data publicly. But they won't. Do they all look like Jose from mey-hi-co? And Ahmed from Saudi Arabia? Because if they all do, then that would be a disaster for their claims of "retaking" their biblical territory if they objectively look nothing like the original inhabitants.

What do you christians here say, should all the skulls they found in Galilee be tested by and analyzed independently and the data made public? Because I'm curious about what the jews are hiding here, and if they turn out to all be Aryan, then I'll eat crow.
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Last edited by Crowe; November 2nd, 2020 at 10:42 PM.
 
Old November 3rd, 2020 #43
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Why would be important is he Aryan or not? Teachenings from the New Testament are suicidal and Romans this lunatic nailed on the cross because he was shame for White civilization on that time as other criminals who had same destiny. Chek this out:



It is totally irrelevant who invented this insane religion,fact is that she is too weak for salvation of the White race (civilization) and it is much visible on colonized areas where you have non-white christian priests where they become leaders of Whites who must sell all what they have and give to then poor non-whites.
 
Old November 3rd, 2020 #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
VNN, it's a pretty niche forums.
It was said long ago in a different era that even a small knitting group will harbour an imposter who reports on you.

For an example the EU spent most of last year advertising this contract on google. Now it just comes up as the PDF:


STUDY ON RIGHT-WING VIOLENT EXTREMISM AND HATE SPEECH ONLINE
1. Contracting authority
European Commission
Directorate-General Justice and Consumers
Directorate C
Unit C2
Rue Montoyer 59
Brussels 1049

blah, blah, blah...

7. Full description of the fields covered by the call for expressions of interest
The Commission, in the context of its work on the implementation of the Code of conduct on
countering illegal hate speech online and the EU Internet Forum1
, have identified the need for
further research to better understand the landscape, nature and scale of the activities of violent
right wing extremists online and the manifestations in terms of hateful material.
The contract is aimed to map how violent right wing extremists messages are expressed in
digital environments, unveiling ecosystems where organised groups use various internet
platform to spread extremist ideologies, hatred and intolerance.
It is important to note that while there is not a common definition of violent right-wing
extremism, research2
suggests that right-wing extremist ideology can be categorised into
racial nationalism (white supremacy or racism), cultural nationalism (e.g. arguing that
Western culture must be protected), ethnic nationalism (e.g. arguing that people with different
ethnic origins should not mix).
The study shall cover digital environments with diverse ideological profiles, including
mainstream platforms that attract individuals who sympathise with violent right-wing
extremist views. The contractor shall monitor several different platforms/environments: large
discussion forums such as Stormfront and VNN forum, news outlets such as Daily Stormer
and The Right Stuff, video-sharing platforms such as YouTube and Dailymotion and social
media platforms such as Twitter, Gab, Dissenter and BitChute.
In order to attain a comprehensive view of the environments, the study shall be performed
using an interdisciplinary mixed methods-approach – i.e. technologies from computer science
to analyse and collect relevant data, linguistic analysis to grasp important concepts and jargon,
and a framework of psychological theories to understand the intra- and interpersonal
processes that serve to evolve and maintain extremist beliefs in digital environments. The
contractor shall record and compile all the data and provide an outcome to the Commission in
the form of a report, which shall include, maps, graphs and visualisation of patterns.
The following tasks are to be carried out:
 Active screening in different EU Member States of violent right-wing extremist
content in different digital environments – discussion forums, news outlets, videosharing platforms and social media, including open social media, “free-speech” and
ideological platforms, that have a high number of visitors from EU Member States.
The study will focus on content spread in English, Italian, German, and Swedish. The
contractor will add one additional language which is deemed relevant for the topic and
which ensures a balanced geographical scope of the EU.

Analysis of up to 10 online platforms, including the number of active users, the
number of visitors, location of visitors, and common discussion topics. The analysis
will include selection of violent right-wing extremist content (messages) and
usernames (if they are active on different environments) promoting violence based on
the use of different ideologies, language and symbols (describing the linguistic
features and jargon used), perception about the enemies (demonization and
dehumanisation), conspiracy theories (and to what extent they are a part of the
discussions on the different platforms), and hate (the level of hate on the different
platforms and what groups or individuals hatred is directed to)
 Delivering to the Commission the results of the study in the form of a report that will
look into how different online platforms are being used by violent right-wing
extremists and individuals to propagandise and promote terrorism and violence, trends
and patterns of behaviour adopted by violent right-wing extremists and how they opt
to use different platforms.
 Candidates will be requested to prove sound scientific expertise in detecting violent
right-wing extremist content on digital environments as well as sound knowledge and
familiarity with the landscape of violent right-wing extremism online. In particular,
the candidates should also prove sound knowledge regarding extremist ideologies,
psychological and conspiracy theories as well hate speech (in particular as referred to
in the 2008 Framework Decision on combating racism and xenophobia).
 Candidates will also be requested to follow ethical considerations concerning integrity
versus security while conducting the study, ensuring that the presentation of the
identified violent right-wing extremist content is on an aggregated level, protecting the
integrity of the individual platform users, and ensuring that methods used comply with
the general ethical guidelines and the General Data Protection Regulation.
Detailed requirements regarding selection criteria will be specified in the tender
specifications.
The indicative amount for these activities is set at €120 000.

Place of delivery
European Commission premises.
9. Deadline for expressions of interest
The interested economic operators should express their interest at the latest on 1 April 2020.
10. Ex-post transparency
Details on the contractors who have concluded a contract of more than €15 000 awarded
following the procedure set out at point 4 shall be published on the website of the contracting
authority no later than 30 June of the year following contract award. These details include
name, locality (address for legal persons and region of origin for natural persons), amount,
and subject of the contract. For natural persons, the information shall be removed two years
after the year of contract award.

JUST/2019/RRAC/FW/RIGH/0178 - European Commission

https://www.google.com/search?q=vnn+...w=1707&bih=838


These globalists want to exterminate the decent Whites, all of the higher caste Shi'ites and Thais, the Armenians, the Joseons, all fauna and flora, and yet writing a bad word on a forum is a crime?

On these forums the people used to say, "All we need to do is write the truth", and indeed that truth leaked out and is everywhere now. If that's Linder's legacy he did a good job.
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Old November 3rd, 2020 #45
Crowe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawn Cannon View Post
It was said long ago in a different era that even a small knitting group will harbour an imposter who reports on you.

For an example the EU spent most of last year advertising this contract on google. Now it just comes up as the PDF:
I'm delighted to hear that (((they're))) quaking the yarmulkes off their heads over what's being posted on VNN. I think that's a testament to the quality of the content that's being posted here, even though this forums doesn't get a huge amount of activity compared to Stormfront or Daily Stormer.
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Old November 6th, 2020 #46
Lutador Branco
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowe View Post
The differences were mostly social and class differences, such as the Galileans were viewed by the elite in Jerusalem as being unsophisticated peasants. No evidence to really suggest they were hugely racially distinct.

Until someone takes a bunch of skulls from Galilee during that time period and analyzes them and does facial recognition on a large quantity, we won't get a consensus on what they looked like "broadly". But what has been found isn't looking good for the Aryan hypothesis.

Since this is mostly speculation, anyway, I'm gonna speculate on another point. Jews have control over the whole region, and you figure someone has been looking into this but data on stuff like this seems surprisingly guarded. If the samples taken were anything close to what the jews in Israel look like currently, we would have heard about it a million times already, and they'd be using it to support their agenda. I suspect the ancient Israelites are closer to Arabs, or possibly the very Palestinians they're busy murdering, and they're trying to hide it.

Lutador Branco questions the picture I posted as being from a leftist source. They asked someone from Israel for skulls, they got one, did a reconstruction on it, and the face looks like a border jumper who just made their way into Texas. 1 skull, no big deal, people can say that's just one, plausible deniability that it's a fluke, but I say they should facially reconstruct all of them they have and share the data publicly. But they won't. Do they all look like Jose from mey-hi-co? And Ahmed from Saudi Arabia? Because if they all do, then that would be a disaster for their claims of "retaking" their biblical territory if they objectively look nothing like the original inhabitants.

What do you christians here say, should all the skulls they found in Galilee be tested by and analyzed independently and the data made public? Because I'm curious about what the jews are hiding here, and if they turn out to all be Aryan, then I'll eat crow.


Yes, Comrade Crowe, all the skulls they found in Galilee should be tested and analyzed independently, and the data made public; this would also help us to have a better understanding of the controversial subject.


In the meantime, we are exchanging ideas.

See the following excerpts from The Aryan Ancestry of Jesus:


https://opensiuc.lib.siu.edu/ocj/vol1909/iss4/1/


Opening page, and pages 195 and 196.

''THE ARYAN ANCESTRY OF JESUS.
BY PAUL HAUPT.

THE founders of Christianity were Galileans. Our Saviour's first
disciples, Peter and his brother Andrew, as well as the two
sons of Zebedee, James and John, were Galilean fishermen. Pilate
was told that Jesus was a Galilean (Luke, xxiii. 7). The Roman
procurator treated Jesus as a political ofifender. Pilate was no
doubt responsible for the execution of the Messiah, not the Jews
(compare Luke, xiii. i). It has been observed that the representation
of the Jewish attitude, as well as that of the Roman procedure,
at the trial of Jesus looks very much like a late attempt to take the
blame as far as possible off the shoulders of the Romans and lay it
on the Jews.^
Jesus Himself was called The Galilean. The Roman emperor
Julian the Apostate, who announced his conversion to paganism on
his accession to the throne, a. d. 361, is said to have exclaimed, when
he was mortally wounded by an arrow in his campaign against
Persia, "Galilean, Thou hast conquered !"
Canon Cheyne remarks in his Encyclopcedia Biblica (col. 1631) :
"Professor Percy Gardner (the distinguished archeologist of the
University of Oxford and Chairman of the Local Committee of the
Third International Congress for the History of Religions, which
was recently held in Oxford, September 15-18, 1908) has well said,
'According to all historic probability, Jesus of Nazareth was born
at Nazareth.' " He is called The Nazarene in the Talmud.''


''Our Saviour is generally supposed to have been a Jew by race.
In 1523 Luther published a treatise in which he tried to show that
Jesus was a Jew. But in the Maccabean gloss prefixed to the poetic
glorification of the Return from the Exile in 538 n. c. and of the
birth of the Davidic jirince Zerubbabel, in the ninth chapter of the
Book of the Prophet Isaiah, Galilee is called "the district of the
nations," that is, gentiles.^ Also in Joshua, xii. 23 we must read,
"the king of the nations in Galilee" (instead of Gilgal).'^
In the First Book of the Maccabees (v. 14-23) wc read that

"messengers from Galilee, with their clothes rent, came to Judas
Maccabseus and his brethren, who reported in this wise. They of
Ptolemais, and of Tyrus and Sidon, and all Galilee of the Gentiles
are assembled together against us to consume us.... Then said
Judas unto Simon, his brother, Choose thee out men, and go and
deliver thy brethren that are in Galilee .... Now unto Simon were
given 3000 men to go into Galilee. . . .where he fought many battles
with the heathen And those that were in Galilee, that is, in Arbatta,''
with their wives and their children, and all that they had,
took he away, and brought them into Judea with great joy."

So the Jews who lived in Galilee at the time of Judas Maccabseus
were all rescued and transferred to Jerusalem in 164 b. c. At
the same time Judas Maccabseus delivered his brethren who lived
among the heathen in the northern region of the country east of the
Jordan, and brought them all to Jerusalem. His triumphant return
from this victorious expedition is glorified in Psalm Ixviii.*

Consequently there were no Jews in Galilee after the year 164
B. c. But in 103 B. c. Simon's grandson (the eldest son and successor
of the great Maccabean conqueror John Hyrcanus) Aristobulus,
the first King of the Jews, whose coronation is glorified in
Psalm ii,^ judaized Galilee, forcing the inhabitants to adopt circumcision
and the Mosaic Law.
Since that time the Galileans were Jews by religion, but not
Jews by race.''

Last edited by Lutador Branco; November 7th, 2020 at 01:51 PM.
 
Old November 6th, 2020 #47
JakeArminius
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Originally Posted by Fico View Post
I just have this rhetoric because Christianity was really reason of my perivous poor life. I can recommend to you Klassen letters Vol1 where he explained why he rejected Christianity as Might is Right by Ragnar Redbread. Also read Hitler's Table talk and Bormann "The Relationship Between NS and Christianity". Gerry Fable made whole topic who explain that is national-socialism not Christian. Fact is that NSDAP have officially anti-Christian swastika. I know that some NS as Alfred Rosenberg wanted to represent Jesus as Aryan in his book "The Myth of the Twentieth Century",read comment on this in chapture "The Nazi-Germanic Religion": http://creativityalliance.com/wp-con...ghReligion.pdf I learn lot of perivous WN members and one claim that he red over 200 WP books and in top 10 he did not mention Christian authors. According to him,only few of them recognize whole picture with rejecting Christianity. I can respect pro-white Christians but Christianity will be always anti-white,for know this,you must read some advanced anti-christian authors who I put.
Might is right is very traditional Christian theology, and explained to the smallest details by the Church Fathers and Saints.

Until Vatican II, (Novus Ordo), the original Church teaching was that the Yiddish cannot be saved. It is not Christianity that brang in non-Whites, it was heretics. The theology is no no-Whites are allowed into the Church except in exceptional cases, and it is exclusivist. The Puritan tainted Evangelists are not representative of Christianity, the West in general.

The fact is without Christianity we would have fallen into modern Mamonism long ago. Even with Rome it only defended itself and never the White race and it enslaved and murdered as many Whites as Islam except Islam was quicker about it. Now we debate over what unifying principles or theology to unite over while the kike marches on...
 
Old November 6th, 2020 #48
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I find this topic fascinating however I don't have a dog in this fight as I'm not a Christian nor a devout atheist, either. I was brought up a catholic which I do not practice and do not even consider to be Christian (another topic of another time for another forum).

But I also do not completely reject all NSers who are Christian just because they are Christian nor do I try to tell them they are wrong (however I do believe most white Christians are a detriment to the white race).

Anyway, what I find fascinating and entertaining in these arguments are...

1) That the non-religious folks seem to be just as, if not more, religious in their non-religiosity than the professed religious ones.

2) That the non-believers try to use science to prove Jesus' race or ethnicity, yet, assuming he did exist as part human, part divine, all science as we know it can be thrown out the window because he was born of a virgin and his paternal DNA was from a deity. That means he could have been born of a green snake mother but came out as a pink elephant-fish-cadillac with 5 elephant heads, 10 fish tails and a gas engine for a heart!!! The guy was conceived without human sperm FFS!
 
Old November 7th, 2020 #49
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Originally Posted by Larry the Raysiss View Post
Anyway, what I find fascinating and entertaining in these arguments are...

1) That the non-religious folks seem to be just as, if not more, religious in their non-religiosity than the professed religious ones.
Lack of belief in something doesn't control my day to day life. Whereas with Christians, their belief in a deity is integral to their lives. That's the difference, and it's a huge one.

Quote:
2) That the non-believers try to use science to prove Jesus' race or ethnicity, yet, assuming he did exist as part human, part divine, all science as we know it can be thrown out the window because he was born of a virgin and his paternal DNA was from a deity. That means he could have been born of a green snake mother but came out as a pink elephant-fish-cadillac with 5 elephant heads, 10 fish tails and a gas engine for a heart!!! The guy was conceived without human sperm FFS!
What you just said brings the claims of the Christians into question. Children cannot be born without intercourse happening, certainly not in those times. The mere idea goes against natural law, and such a thing occurring has roots in other, older Pagan religions. That just makes it really easy to deny that happened at all. The more likely occurrence is that the woman wasn't faithful to her husband. But the most likely out of all possibilities was that the whole thing was nothing more than a story, and it never happened at all.
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Old November 7th, 2020 #50
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Originally Posted by Crowe View Post

Also, I admit that I've been in somewhat of a sour mood this past week, I have an abscess tooth, so I'm in a bit of pain (I absolutely refuse to take narcotics, doctor was going to write a prescription, and I refused it), and the earliest I could get a dentist appointment was the middle of November. Feeling a little better today, because the infection went down, and I can no longer feel my heart beating inside of my tooth.
Crowe, your dentist should have given you an antibiotic for that infection. A few years ago, I had an infection under a tooth (not sure if that's the same as an abscess but the pain was intense and I could not chew on that side). I told the dentist I would not take an opioid, which he agreed with. I got that prescription strength Ibuprofen, which did the trick. I had used it before after foot surgery on a dislocated toe.
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Old November 7th, 2020 #51
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Originally Posted by JakeArminius View Post

Until Vatican II, (Novus Ordo), the original Church teaching was that the Yiddish cannot be saved. It is not Christianity that brang in non-Whites, it was heretics. The theology is no no-Whites are allowed into the Church except in exceptional cases, and it is exclusivist. The Puritan tainted Evangelists are not representative of Christianity, the West in general.
Weren't the Catholics hellbent on converting the Amerindians of what is now South America and Mexico? I think they were more so than any of the Protestants in North America. I'm referring to centuries ago.
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Old November 7th, 2020 #52
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The fact is without Christianity we would have fallen into modern Mamonism long ago.
Christianity tell us that we do not need collect money on the earth,not just that,we must also sell all we have and give to the all scum of the world while jews have clear program that with interest on money they must enslave whole world. With this teachenings,whole money can only have Jews over poor Christians. Money=work,what is wrong with having lot of money if you are capable for have it? Ask jewish rich upper class if it is. If you are upper class goy,you can not go in jewish heaven what do you think why? Because it is impossible jewish power in that case. Someone can say that are people like Trump rich,but with giving to the state who have loans to the banks more than half of your earnings (70%),only who is rich are banksters. I do not want waste my time for explain why is Christianity bad,if WN people do not see non-whites among them in Christian Churches in USA and also have not problem for kneel under black priest on confession,it is end of discussion for me. Whole jewish religion is mamonism so Jehovah is same as Mammon who allow only that Jews can be rich,for goys he put his son known as Christ who had mission for explain to us how is being poor great. Final mission of Christianity is that we look like first Christian underclass rats in catacombs.

Last edited by Fico; November 7th, 2020 at 03:16 PM.
 
Old November 8th, 2020 #53
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Spoiler alert: Christ-insanity is a Jewish fairy tale created by (((Saul of Tarsus))) as a method of control.
Is there any evidence that Saul existed? His writings are very similar to the Stoic philosopher Seneca who was born and died the same years as Saul, who was born outside of Rome, bit a Roman citizen, and both put to death by Nero, although there is evidence for Seneca to have existed. Rabbi Yohanan ben Zakkai escaped out of Jerusalem in a basket because he wanted a peaceful resolution just like Paul in the book of acts. The Paul shipwreck resembles a Josephus shipwreck, a link, not the best, I'm doing this post off the cuff, no access right now for better comparisons, https://vridar.org/2007/04/25/the-sh...d-paul-part-3/. Saul or Paul seems to be a composite charactor.

Last edited by Adolf Goldbergstein; November 9th, 2020 at 11:02 AM.
 
Old November 8th, 2020 #54
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Crowe, your dentist should have given you an antibiotic for that infection. A few years ago, I had an infection under a tooth (not sure if that's the same as an abscess but the pain was intense and I could not chew on that side). I told the dentist I would not take an opioid, which he agreed with. I got that prescription strength Ibuprofen, which did the trick. I had used it before after foot surgery on a dislocated toe.
They gave me amoxicillin, still took about a week for the swelling to go down. I feel better now though.
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Old November 11th, 2020 #55
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Old December 1st, 2020 #56
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Letter of Lentulus


https://orthodoxwiki.org/Letter_of_Lentulus




Letter of Lentulus, printed in London, 1680.


The Letter of Lentulus is an allegedly apocyrphal or pseudepigraphal letter purporting to have been written to the Roman Senate during the reign of Tiberius Caesar by a certain "Publius Lentulus",[note 1] concerning the physical appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ.[note 2]

The earliest manuscript copies of the Letter of Lentulus all date from the 15th century, from which time it became widely dispersed in Italy and throughout Western Europe. There are no complete statistics, however in 1899 the German scholar Ernst von Dobschűtz listed seventy-five manuscripts, chiefly in Germany and France.



The Letter

An English translation of the purported letter as given by Dr. Cora E. Lutz, who used the 15th century manuscript found in the Beinecke Rare Book Library known as "Marston 49", is as follows:

"Lentulus, to the Senate and the Roman People, greetings.
There has appeared in these times, and, indeed, is still living, a man of great power named Christ Jesus, who is said by the Gentiles to be the prophet of truth, but his disciples call him the Son of God.
He raises the dead and heals all diseases. He is a man of average size and pleasing appearance, having a countenance that commands respect, which those who behold may love or fear. He has hair the color of an unripe hazelnut, smooth almost to the ears, but below his ears curling and rather darker and more shining, hanging over his shoulders, and having a parting in the middle of his head according to the fashion of the Nazarenes. His brow is smooth and quite serene; his face is without wrinkle or blemish, and a slight ruddiness makes it handsome. No fault can be found with his nose and mouth; he has a full beard of the color of his hair, not long but divided in two at the chin. His facial expression is guileless and mature; his eyes are greyish and clear. In his rebukes he is terrible, but in his admonitions he is gentle and kind; he is cheerful, but always maintains his dignity. At times he has wept, but he has never laughed.
In stature he is tall and erect and his hands and arms are fine to behold. His speech is grave, reserved, and temperate, so that he is rightly called by the prophet, "Fairer than the sons of men." "(Psalm 45:2).



The Latin text of the Letter of Lentulus that was printed in 1886 by Dr. Gotthold Gundermann, using "Codex Harleianus 2729" as his source, is as follows:

(Latin) "Pub. Lentulus in Judea preses (tempore Cesaris) senatui populoque Romano hanc epistolam misit.
Apparuit temporibus istis nostris, et adhuc est, homo magnae uirtutis, cui nomen Jhesus Christus, qui a gente dicitur propheta ueritatis; et a suis discipulis filius Dei. Suscitans mortuos et sanans omnes langores. Homo quidem statura procerus et spectabilis. Uultum habens uenerabilem quam intuentes facile possunt diligere et formidare. Capillos habens coloris nucis auellane praematura et planos usque ad aures; ab auribus uero crispos aliquantulum coeruliores et fulgentiores; ab humeris uentilantes. Discrimen habens in medio capite iuxta morem Nazareorum. Frontem planam serenissimam cum facie sine ruga aliqua quam rubor moderatus uenustat. Nasi et oris nulla prorsus reprehensio. Barbam habens copiosam et capillis concolorem, non langam, sed in medio bifurcatam. Aspectum simplicem et maturum, oculis glaucis uariis et claris. In increpatione terribilis, in admonitione blandus et amabilis. Hilaris quidem seruata grauitate. Numquam uisus ridere, flere autem sepe. In statura corporis propagatus et rectus. Manus habens et brachia uisu desertabilia. In colloquio grauis, rarus et modestus. Forma certe speciosus prae filiis hominum."
Note that the different manuscript copies vary from the foregoing texts in several details. Ernst von Dobschűtz who enumerated the manuscripts, also gave an "apparatus criticus" in his "Christusbilder" (Leipzig, 1899).






Letter of Lentulus, on an old Church postcard, in French.


Authenticity

The Letter of Lentulus has been judged to be apocryphal for a number of reasons. Modern scholars raise three main points where the letter seems to violate historicity

1 - there was no Publius Lentulus, governor of Judea, preceding Pontius Pilate; history gives the appointment from A.D. 15-26 to Valerius Gratus.

2- if there had been a procurator of Syria, he would have written to the Emperor, not to the Senate, because the province was an imperial one; and

3- the title "Jesus Christus" was not used as early as this; while the expressions "prophet of truth" and "sons of men" are Hebrew idioms.


On the other hand there are important arguments to be considered in favour of authenticity as well. The first criticism above, which has been stressed by scholars in every English language text on the topic, is that the letter must be apocryphal because we know that the Prefect before Pontius Pilate was not Publius Lentulus. And yet in the 15th century manuscript "Marston 49" (translated into English above), as well as in the Latin text of "Codex Harleianus 2729", both of these manuscripts make no mention at all of the title of Publius Lentulus as being the so-called "governor of Judea"; which therefore appears to be a variation that was introduced from other manuscripts, or else became a mistranslation into English and was carried forward in that variant or erroneous form. In other words, the first criticism above is virtually nullified, and Publius Lentulus could have been any individual or Roman official who was visiting Jerusalem or Judea at the time.

Further to this, Roman History gives us the names of several Lentuli in the period in question who were Consuls and were active around the time of the Lord's ministry. And it was certainly possible for a Consul to address a letter to the Senate, contrary to the second criticism above. Therefore a consideration for authenticity bears greater attention.

Friedrich Münter in his "Die Sinnbilder und Kunstvorstellungen der alten Christen" (Altona 1825), believed that he could trace the letter down to the time of Diocletian, but this was not generally accepted.

An alternative perspective is given by Monk Pierre (Blais) ThD, elder of The Hesychastic Society of the Most Holy Mary (OCA) and former Lecturer in Religion at the University of Toronto, UTM, OCAD U and St. John Fisher College, who has written the following in a private email dated Dec. 17, 2011:

"Scholars and believers might better understand the purpose of the text if both consider the significance of the nomenclature Publius Lentulus more in an allegorical sense, as intended by either the author (in a self-effacing manner) or by a later editor or redactor (as commentary), and less as necessarily validating an apocryphal value or judgment. Publius Lentulus in both classical and ecclesiastical Latin glosses into English as "A Dullard Public Official;" and literally translates as, "[An official] of the people [who was] rather slow [to understand/respond]."


History
Roman Prosopography

There were several officials with the name of “Lentulus”, around the time that the “Letter of Lentulus” was supposedly authored. Sir Ronald Syme, widely regarded as the 20th century's greatest historian of ancient Rome, has identified four consular Lentuli during the reign of Tiberius Caesar:


Servius Cornelius Lentulus Cethegus, Consul in 24 AD.

Publius Cornelius Lentulus Scipio, Consul suffectus in 24 AD, and later a senator.

Cossus Cornelius Lentulus (the younger), Consul in 25 AD, and

Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus Gaetulicus, Consul in 26 AD, and executed in 39 AD. According to Syme, this man had a taste for polite letters. Nine poems in the Greek Anthology carry his name; he also wrote in Latin, on erotic themes; and composed a prose work, perhaps memoirs.

In addition, Cossus Cornelius Lentulus (the elder), the father of Cossus (the younger) and Gaetulicus (both listed above), held high office as Prefect of Rome from 33-36 AD.


Fifteenth Century Discovery and Dispersal in the West

According to a manuscript of the University of Jena, a certain Giacomo (Jacopo) Colonna found the letter in 1421 inserted into a very old volume of the Annals of Rome, having been originally sent to Rome from the Patriarch of Constantinople, according to the following colophon in the text:[2]

(Latin) "Explicit epistola Iacobi de Columpna, anno domini 1421, reperta in annalibus Romae, in libro antiquissimo in Capitolio, doct. domino Patriarchae Constantinopolitano."
Thus it must have been of Greek origin, and translated into Latin during the thirteenth or fourteenth century, though it received its present form in the 15th or 16th century.

Just about the time that the letter was being dispersed widely in Italy, the humanist Lorenzo Valla denounced it as a fraud in his famous treatise correctly exposing the Donation of Constantine as fraudulent (ca. 1440 AD). That said, one cannot infer the one from the other (i.e. fraudulency).[6]

Even so after that, the letter was given greater prestige by being incorporated into the prologue of Ludolph of Saxony's Meditationes in vitam Christi (Nuremberg 1483). In a similar way it was printed in the collection of writings of the 11th century Anselm of Canterbury (Nuremberg, 1491). However neither Ludolph nor Anselm had any knowledge of the letter.[2]

Later, in the 16th century, it was printed as authentic by the Protestant theologian Matthias Flacius, in his Centuries of Magdeburg. It continued to appear as late as the end of the 19th century, and became included among the texts of the Apocryphal New Testament.


Antecedents in Greek Sources

No Greek original for the letter is known to exist, but there are at least three passages in Greek writings earlier than the 15th century Lentulus manuscripts, which give similar descriptions concerning the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ.[2]

Closest in time to the Lentulus letter is the description found in the 14th century Ecclesiastical History of Nicephorus Callistus, in a section entitled: "On the divine and human features of our Saviour, Jesus Christ."[7] With the prefatory "As we have learned from the ancients," the author notes a number of significant details: blond hair, thick, and falling into waves over the shoulders; dark eyebrows; short blond beard; eyes dark and remarkably kindly, but sharp; light complexion, slightly ruddy; face showing gravity, prudence, and gentleness, very like his Mother.[2]

Another description, probably first set down in the 11th century, was edited in the 18th century by the monk Dionysius of Fourna in a Handbook of Painting,[note 6] a guide to Christian iconography that treats of the methods and materials of painting and the works of art from Mount Athos. It occurs in a section entitled: "On the countenance and form of our Lord as we have learned it from those who have seen Him with their own eyes." Here the author mentions gentleness as the salient characteristic of the face. He also notes: beautiful eyebrows that meet; lovely eyes; beautiful white nose; complexion like ripe grain; curly golden hair; dark beard; fingers long and slender; gentle bearing, very like his Mother.[2]

An 8th century description of Christ is found in the works of St. John of Damascus, in his Epistola ad Theophilum. Here the details include: beautiful eyes, with eyebrows that meet; straight nose; curly hair; pleasant voice; gentle, serene, and patient manner. In spite of the differences, the repetition and similarities suggest that all three accounts, along with the Letter of Lentulus, may stem from a common source.[note 7] What the ultimate origin of such a likeness may have been is suggested in another work of St. John of Damascus, the De Imaginibus oratio.[8] Here John reports the existence of a miraculous impression of the face of Christ, sent by Christ Himself, just before his death, to Abgarus, King of Edessa.





Image Not made by hands.



Acheiropoieta - Historians accounts

Furthermore, there are several other witnesses to the existence of the miraculous icon.

Evagrius Scholasticus, for one, in the 7th century, in his Ecclesiastical History,[9] cites Procopius of Caesarea for evidence of the "God-made image" which successfully protected Edessa against the Persian King Chosroes.
In the record of the Second Council of Nicaea (Seventh Ecumenical Council), held in 787, there is a letter purporting to have been written in 726 by Pope Gregory II to the Emperor Leo III the Isaurian, on the subject of the iconoclastic movement headed by Leo. The Pope, reminding Leo of the Abgarus-Jesus letters and the miraculous icon, bids him to go to Edessa and behold the venerable image of Christ "that was not made by human hands, worshipped and adored by multitudes of the people in the East."
A third witness to the portrait is a long naarative attributed to Emperor Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus (908-959), of the whole history of the letters and the sacred image to the time that they were taken from Edessa to Constantinople in 844. Described in detail are the solemn ceremonies, the religious procession, the numerous stops at holy places en route, and the emotional reception of the marvelous relic in Constantinople by the clergy, the Emperor, and the people. The account states specifically that the icon was placed briefly upon the imperial throne, where the Emperor viewed it and reverenced it, before its enshrinement in a church for the eternal protection of the realm.
As a final witness there is the 12th century Annales of chronicler John Zonaras.[10] In speaking of Emperor Nicephorus Phocas (963-969) in his campaign to recover Cyprus and Syria, he says that in Hierapolis his soldiers found the duplicate of the miraculous icon of Christ and brought it back to Constantinople.


Summary

According to both tradition and in historical accounts, there was an early icon of Christ that men of the East believed was created in a miraculous manner during Christ's lifetime and which they guarded and reverenced. Furthermore, the three descriptions of an early icon as given by St John of Damascus in the 8th century, in the 11th century text edited by Dionysius of Fourna, and in the 14th century text of Nicephorus Callistus, agree in many details and must all derive from a common source. If the Letter of Lentulus that was discovered in the 15th century is apocryphal as some scholars allege, nevertheless it also belongs to and carries forward this same iconographic tradition that was held by examples of prime Byzantine historians as authentic.

Last edited by Lutador Branco; December 1st, 2020 at 10:48 PM.
 
Old December 2nd, 2020 #57
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Lutador, you must choose between religion or your Aryan heritage. You can't have both.
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Old December 2nd, 2020 #58
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Aryan wisdom. Christ insanity spells defeat, enslavement, and destruction.

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Old December 2nd, 2020 #59
Lutador Branco
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Thanks for your posts on this thread, George Witzgall and Crowe.
 
Old December 7th, 2020 #60
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Each Aryan nation has a heritage that includes both a biological and a psychic component.
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